My Math Fixes

[KarinsDad]

I guess...I don't understand what the issue is here...the monster's **should** be tougher than the heroes...that ensure that there is a challenge and chance of death. The fact that the party has access to extensive healing resources, group tactics, scaling power strengths, action points, epic destinies, etc.

They also have circumstance bonuses that monsters often don't have, like those granted by the warlord / cleric / bard in the party that aren't factored into the base "math" which is really simply comparison of defense versus attack.

So...I appreciate the effort I'm just not sure that this does't take the homogony of the system too far.

I believed the same as you do until I ran a mock 22nd level combat and the encounter took 19 rounds and the BBEG still was not defeated. So, I analyzed it further.

The synergies that you mention do not make up for two things:

1) The delta in the math. -4 for PC offenses, -4 to -7 for PC defenses.

2) The monsters are designed to handle the increased synergies of the PCs. Percentage-wise, they have a lot more hit points, they have more powers, they have more synergies themselves (such as boosting ally defenses or decreasing enemy offenses), they have more area effects, auras, etc.

-4, or -4 to -7 can partially be handled by paragon abilities, powers, feats, etc. The problem is that one is forced to take certain abilities (feats, powers, or paragon paths), just to stay competitive at all and even then, the PCs are mathematically behind the 8 ball.

Players are forced to take feats like Iron Will, or they get hit 80% of the time or more with Will powers at real high level.

WotC realizes this as well. Otherwise, they would not add mega-powerful feats like Epic Lightning Reflexes with not only is +4 (a HUGE boost), but it stacks with everything.

There is a serious problem here that WotC is trying to correct.

I just chose to correct it without using feats to do so. That does not really fix the problem, it bandaids it.

 

[Garthanos]

I had been thinking that hide was ... more than a little redundant perceptually ie the only reason to keep it might be symetrical number of light and heavy armors ;-), trying to imagine how to bring the Dex in to play.

Then I thought of this...

Narrow the difference between the light and heavy armor kind of like shown on that chart then allow a stat add for heavy armor ie saying users of heavy armor can use the lower of Strength and Con and users of light armor can add the better of Dex and Wisdom.

Couldnt we remove the class/feats for knowing armor...
its kind of a weird idea, and I probably dont have it balanced but basically I if the Attributes to influence the choice of armor types and I do keep wanting Strength or Con in there for heavy armor use (remember the current feat requirements) and Wisdom --as in perception-- seems more useful defensively than Intelligence but I would probably have to concede unless I start messing with Reflexes too.

I guess this idea rambled off topic it doesnt really do
anything to fix the disparagement between heros at higher levels and the monsters they are supposed to be able to face..
But I have always felt that was best solved by adjusting the monsters and the encounters based on how they interacted with my players explicitly
in other words if my players are tactic hounds my monsters need to be more challenging... if my monsters mash the floor too much I can nerf them fairly easily by dropping the encounter levels a little or literally reducing there levels or old Q&D monsters get half hit points method somebody mentiond... .

Due to the effects of player and DM tactics "I think hard fixes to the math might be inferior to soft ones." and might even be necessary if you fix the math the way you are proposing.

Personally, I think the system should have been something like this in the first place. I'd just drop Hide. The issue is that people would rant and rave about why Dex never came into play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keterys
So... diverting slightly away from the fix for a moment. How far off base is the following as a statement of goal?

It would be better and a more optimal play experience if a normal monster needs...

8 to hit Cloth
9 to hit Leather
10 to hit Hide or Chain
11 to hit Scale
12 to hit Plate

+2 if it's a Brute, +1 or +2 if target uses a shield, -2 if it's a soldier or artillery

 

[Alisair Longreach]

My house rule fix to this problem is to increase the ability score increases to +2. This will provide the missing +4 bonus across the 30 levels.

I also add the Agile property from Adventuer's Vault to all masterwork heavy armors so they also get that needed boost.

The Expertise feats are banned.