My new LOW MAGIC game idea!!!

[mmadsen]

I am thinking of running a variant Harn d20 game, replacing the standard DnD magic with the Call of Cthulhu magic and sanity system.

That sounds like what a lot of us have been suggesting for a d20 Conan game.

There is NO magical healing.

Please realize that D&D's rules expect magical healing. Without it, ablative Hit Points dwindle rapidly.

Almost all magic will appear to have no visible effect or at least won't be flashy---no fireballs or magic missiles but plenty of charm person, hold person, blindness, etc. Spells must be learned from crumbling old tomes that blast sanity (and take weeks to learn a single spell) or are imparted directly into the caster's mind by evil demons or gods.

That all sounds fun.

Magic items are so rare as to be virtually unattainable, and you wouldn't want to advertise that you own one... not only will you be accused of devil worship, but evil people will seek you out to murder you and claim the item for themselves...

For gaming purposes, magic items can still be "virtually unattainable" while appearing regularly in the game -- and if their very appearance leads to drama ("evil people will seek you out to murder you"), so much the better.

As far as magic items feeling mundane, if you get rid of things like Wands of Cure Light Wounds for a handful of gold, you've gone a long way. A miracle like instant healing should feel miraculous.

Potions and charms (protective amulets) are an exception, though they will still be quite rare unless you happen to frequent the creepy hut of the old witch on the hill who can provide that which you desire... for a soul-damning price!

I love Oriental Adventures' notion of a Talisman in place of a Potion. Some low-level spells seem natural for one or the other.

I will also use Cthulhu's "classless" idea for characters:
2 feats, 8+Int mod skill points, choose offense or defense option for saves and base attack bonus...

I really only think you should use Investigator/Expert stats for wizards and priests. Conan should be a Fighter/Rogue, for instance. Also the Investigator/Expert is a bit underpowered compared to other classes, with no Special Abilities or Bonus Feats. I like to give Experts a Bonus Feat every other level (from a very short list of appropriate Feats, typically Skill Emphasis and a few others).

Anyone can learn spells but loses sanity for learning them, and again for casting them each time!

If wizards have all sorts of skills, this gives them something to do besides casting madness-inducing spells. Let Knowledge (Arcana) identify magic items, Spellcraft read scrolls, Knowledge (Nature) identify Animals and Magical Beasts, Heal treat wounds almost magically, etc.

Also, there will only be around 30,000 gp in circulation on the continent. Everything will cost silver pieces. Poverty is rampant! Hehe!

I don't see anything beyond a flavor detail in changing gold to silver. Adventurers should still capture what amounts to a king's ransom, only it'll be in silver, a smattering of gold, jewelry, silk, spices, art, etc.

 

[S'mon]

Greetings!

Yeah, apparently it is a standard in Call of Cthulhu that your characters either die quite frequently, and easily, or your character is always on the brink of being a gibbering idiot.

SHARK

S'funny - in the games I've run characters die more often in my D&D games than in my CoC games! Of course CoC death can be more traumatic, as the characters may seem closer to being 'real' people. I guess I'm a pretty mean D&D GM but not as sadistic as some CoC GMs appear to be. Plus D&D PCs have a habit og charging in blindly into the monster's lair where CoC PCs exercise much more caution. Even though the D&D PCs win most of the time, over several fights they still die a lot.

 

[mmadsen]

One problem I see with this "low magic" campaign is in how you present it: none of this, none of that, oh, no cool things for you! It's quite a negative image you paint, and many people justifiably see this as D&D with all the popular elements removed.

On the other hand, people enjoy low-level dungeon crawls, and a "low magic" Sunless Citadel doesn't look that different from its "high magic" incarnation we all know.

For gaming purposes, magic items can still be "virtually unattainable" while appearing regularly in the game -- and if their very appearance leads to drama ("evil people will seek you out to murder you"), so much the better.

One big mistake people make when dreaming up a "low magic" campaign is that they think that means giving out a +1 dagger instead of a +1 longsword or whatever. Frankly, I think you'll keep magic more "magical" if you hand out a single +5 Holy Avenger. It'll seem magical, and there's no threat of the heroes drowning in magic items, since you're only handing out one or two and not letting them make their own at will.

That way it makes sense that whole kingdoms quake at the name of an ancient blade, or that assassins come in the night to steal the magic orb, or whatever.

 

[Chairman_Kaga]

Good golly

I wish I could play in this one...low magic is the goodness!

 

[Conaill]

For rapid healing, you could use the "Apothecary's Salve" from the Alchemy&Herbalists online preview. One application takes a full round to apply, and converts 1d4 hitpoints into subdual damage (which is then recovered at a rate of one hp per level per hour).

Maybe restrict the number of uses per day or per wound. It would also be reasonable to let a Heal check restore a few hitpoints. Maybe a Heal check DC18, taking 1/2 hour, could restore 1d4 hitpoints (but only once per set of wounds).

Nice ideas. I for one would enjoy playing in a campaign like that.

Watch out for your economics though! 30,000gp on the entire continent? So there will be no inns, because nobody can afford them. No longbows (75 gp!). Leather armor would be a luxury. Chain is virtually nonexistant. And effective poisons would be right out (1000 gp and up).

 

[Darklance]

I have hard time imagining any player really wanting to submit himself to such a campaign, but if your players have given you the green light, go ahead by all means!

Why do you say that? My group has been discussing something like this for years now and I think I'll try it after I wrap up my current one. I'm sure lots of players would want to. You just have to be willing to go the non power gaming route.

 

[Darklance]

Is there a Harn D20 world out? I never heard of it. How is it? I had heard of nasty, brutish, and short. How is that?

 

[Arcane Runes Press]

There is NO magical healing. There is no teleport, raise dead, invisibility, fly or other game-breaking magics. Almost all magic will appear to have no visible effect or at least won't be flashy---no fireballs or magic missiles but plenty of charm person, hold person, blindness, etc.

Be careful on this one. Fireballs are indeed flashy but, in the wash, they are MUCH less dangerous than Charm Person, Hold Person, or Blindness. Without magical healing, Hold Person spells, and the attendant coup de grace attacks, are going to absolutely LEVEL people.

Patrick Y.

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

More ideas

Thanks for the responses! I'm still trying to figure out if I should just use a straight CON = HP (no advancement), or HP = 6 at 1st level + 1d6 + Con mod per additional level (the CofC version), or something else like VP/WP, or HP spread out over a chart of the body with boxes you can check off (subdual) or fill in (wound) damage. When you run out of boxes that part of the body is rendered useless (subdual) or destroyed (wound)... this last system was used in Top Secret/S.I. (TSR, 1987).

Here are the occupation templates I'm working on for players to choose from:

Occupation Templates:
Each template gives the ten core skills
for each occupation and allows room for
minor customization by leaving two core
skill slots empty, to be filled with skills of
the player’s choice. The freeman is the
only exception, which allows for four
customizable skills. Remember that most
characters not of the clergy or nobility
are illiterate and do not possess the
Script skill.

Clergy
Concentration
Diplomacy
Knowledge: Religion
Knowledge (any one)
Listen
Script (native)
Script (other language)
Sense Motive
Speak Other Language
Spot
+ two skills of player’s choice

Criminal (Bandit)
Appraise
Bluff
Gather Information
Hide
Knowledge: Underworld
Move Silently
Open Lock
Pick Pockets
Profession: Gambler
Wilderness Lore
+ two skills of player’s choice

Freeman
Craft or Profession (any one)
Craft or Profession (any one)
Knowledge Folklore
Knowledge (any one)
Knowledge (any one)
Listen
Spot
Wilderness Lore
+ four skills of player’s choice

Mercenary
Climb
Hide
Jump
Knowledge: Mercenary
Knowledge: Military
Listen
Move Silently
Spot
Use Rope
Wilderness Lore
+ two skills of player’s choice

Merchant (Guilder)
Appraise
Bluff
Craft (any one)
Diplomacy
Gather Information
Knowledge: Trade
Knowledge (any one)
Listen
Profession (any one)
Spot
+ two skills of player’s choice

Noble (Knight)
Diplomacy
Gather Information
Knowledge: Administration
Knowledge: Heraldry
Knowledge: History
Knowledge: Law
Knowledge: Military
Knowledge: Trade
Ride
Script (native)
+ two skills of player’s choice

Serf, Male (Cottar, Villein)
Craft (any one)
Handle Animal
Heal (First Aid)
Knowledge: Folklore
Knowledge: Military
Knowledge: Weather Sense
Listen
Profession: Farmer
Spot
Wilderness Lore
+ two skills of player’s choice

Serf, Female
Craft: Cooking
Craft: Textilecraft
Heal (First Aid)
Knowledge: Folklore
Listen
Nursemaid
Profession: Farmer
Salting
Spot
Wilderness Lore
+ two skills of player’s choice

Slave
Craft (any one)
Craft (any one)
Craft (any one)
Diplomacy
Hide
Listen
Move Silently
Profession: Servant
Sense Motive
Spot
+ two skills of player’s choice

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

NOTE: The following may not make much sense to those of you not familiar with Harn...

This is still in the early stages of development... I intend on using HarnWorld as the setting, though I haven't narrowed it down to the exact location yet. I am considering using the village and area from the Harn adventure "100 Bushels of Rye" (SPOILERS AHEAD RE: 100 BUSHELS), as well as that adventure itself as the introduction to the campaign, though I will probably replace the Nolah with something else even more hideous, the Taelda sun god with Shub-Niggurath and the hidden Khazdul forge with some kind of crazed human cultist's lair, perhaps with a crumbling old "forbidden book" or two.

STREAM OF CONSCIOUSNESS BEGINS HERE: I'll probably also toss in a wicked old "wise woman" in the woods who can serve as a source of info, herbs and perhaps as a patron for those interested in unlocking the secrets of "black magic." In a pinch, she could serve as an instigator for sending the PCs out to recover her "dear, departed husband's humble library" from the cultist's lair, which "holds sentimental value" to her. The body of her husband could replace the dead dwarf in the forge, and the books replace the magical sword Trueheart. Perhaps the witch and her husband had a cult going in the area decades ago but the Taelda tribe moved in and wiped them out... but then kept sacrificing one of their own to the monster in the pit of skulls to keep it away from them. The village could then have sprung up nearby many years later, driven off the Taelda and caused the creature from the pit to go roaming for its food (sacrifices) into the village... The witch could have been waiting all these years for the village to spring up and give her the chance at revenge against the Taelda "when the stars are right" (LOL)---perhaps she somehow was able to instigate the conflict between the village and the Taelda---and now she hopes to reclaim her husband's eldritch tomes and start her cult again using the villagers as converts and sacrifices! Or maybe the husband wasn't really her husband but some guy who usurped control of the cult from her and then she arranged for the Taelda to massacre the cult but then couldn't get to her books. She received an insane vision to wait for the PCs (or one in particular she sees as a protege) to retrieve her books and renew the cult with her at its head. The vision told her only when that PC has come of age can the cult be renewed in earnest.

I am thinking of replacing the existing Harnic pantheon with the Catholic Church (LOL). Everything not of the church is the work of the Devil and his demons. Unfortunately, Catholicism will have no real power to save anyone from the gibbering madness that Lurks Beyond... No offense intended.

I was partially inspired by a HarnCthulhu document on Columbia Games site. The new d20 Cthulhu filled in the rest of the blanks. Plus, I paid $40 for it, so we're going to use it or else, LOL.