My new Skill list (feedback needed and appreciated!)
Kisanji Arael
First Post
*chuckle*
Looks a little sparse, Nyar.
Looks a little sparse, Nyar.
Nyaricus
First Post
Oi! many revisions have been taking place. Just a little bit after I posted this, my buddy came over and he started to take apart my skill list, so I had to go back to the drawing board, and right now I don't have the time to go through it all, so we're looking at this weekend to get'r all up and runningKisanji Arael said:
cheers,
--N
Kisanji Arael
First Post
Sounds like fun; I'll pencil you in. I'll be glad to criticize and give my little tips. As always, it'll be a pleasure examining your work.
But what's the theme of your work? As in, for what overarching goal are you making revisions?
But what's the theme of your work? As in, for what overarching goal are you making revisions?
Nyaricus
First Post
I'd say the main idea is definitely to get rid of 3 skills which do the same thing. Decipher script/forgery, hide/move silently, spot/search, etc. Also, I'm taking a very critical look at the Knowledge and Perform skills and I'm going to be seriously cutting them down to size, and fixing things I really thing need fixing. Here's a spoiler for my Knowledge skills:Kisanji Arael said:
- Knowledge: Arcana (INT) is for Knowledge: Arcana and Spellcraft checks. Used for info on Dragons, Constructs, Elementals and Magical Beasts.
- Knowledge: Astronomy (INT) is for Knowledge: the Planes checks. Used for info on Aberrations and all Outsiders.
- Knowledge: Cryptography (INT) takes over both Forgery and Decipher Script.
- Knowledge: History (INT)
- Knowledge: Nature & Geography (INT or WIS [depends]) is for Animals, Plants, Oozes, Vermin, Giants, Fey. All uses of the Survival skill now fall under it.
- Knowledge: Medicine (INT) is for all Heal checks, for which I've swapped out D20 Modern's Treat Injury skill.
- Knowledge: Politics and Laws (INT) Nobility, Royalty, etc.
- Knowledge: Races and Cultures (INT) is for Humanoids and Monstrous Humanoids.
- Knowledge: Religion (INT) is for info on Demons, Devils, Angels, Celestials (etc, you get the drift) and Undead.
- Knowledge: Trade, Antiques and Artifacts (INT) is for Appraise checks.
Also, here are my Perform skill list:
- Perform: Act
- Perform: Dance
- Perform: Percussion Instruments
- Perform: Sing & Oratory
- Perform: String Instruments
- Perform: Wind Instruments
Are all the same, save for Comedy got folded into Acting, Oratory and Singing are now the same, and Keyboard Instruments got folded into String Instruments (which they are). Oh, and Disguise gets mixed into Perform: Act (and usually to succeed on a disguise, you'd need good ranks in both Perform: Act and Persuade: Convince, but more on the latter later
)I'd appreciate any feedback on what's there right now, in any case. Those won't change
cheers,
--N
Nyaricus
First Post
More thoughts here....
My own thoughts are thus: Perform is good and fine the way I've changed it. I have the two Trio's of the performing arts: the triple threat (singing, acting and dancing) and the three traditional types of instruments, so that's all good. Also, since Acting already includes Comedy, is there really a need for distinction? And where, specifically, is Perform: Drama if we have Perform: Comedy? Might as well wrap 'em up all into one, methinks.
For Knowledge, I'd love a better name then 'Races and Cultures', but we'll see how she goes. For the knowledge skill, I did research on school curriculums to get the basis for the areas of knowledge. Adding in a bit of D&D flair, and some skills which fit the requirements and needed to be on the list (Arcana, Appraise, etc) I finally came to that list above. I know Politics and the Law don't really have anything associated with it, but that sort of thing (along with History) are so essential to nations world-wide that I think that alone gives it merits to be on the list. I'd like to add in Mathematics and the Sciences (perhaps as one skill?) and possibly move Craft: Alchemy over to Knowledge: Alchemy, but if I could get some feedback on those last two, that'd be awesome
cheers,
--N
My own thoughts are thus: Perform is good and fine the way I've changed it. I have the two Trio's of the performing arts: the triple threat (singing, acting and dancing) and the three traditional types of instruments, so that's all good. Also, since Acting already includes Comedy, is there really a need for distinction? And where, specifically, is Perform: Drama if we have Perform: Comedy? Might as well wrap 'em up all into one, methinks.
For Knowledge, I'd love a better name then 'Races and Cultures', but we'll see how she goes. For the knowledge skill, I did research on school curriculums to get the basis for the areas of knowledge. Adding in a bit of D&D flair, and some skills which fit the requirements and needed to be on the list (Arcana, Appraise, etc) I finally came to that list above. I know Politics and the Law don't really have anything associated with it, but that sort of thing (along with History) are so essential to nations world-wide that I think that alone gives it merits to be on the list. I'd like to add in Mathematics and the Sciences (perhaps as one skill?) and possibly move Craft: Alchemy over to Knowledge: Alchemy, but if I could get some feedback on those last two, that'd be awesome
cheers,
--N
Nyaricus said:
I go with;
Balance + Tumble = Acrobatics
Listen + Spot = Notice (which also covers sensing things via taste, touch or scent)
Hide + Move Silenty = Stealth
Search remains it's own skill, as I see Spot/Listen as immediate / instinctive things and Search as more the CSI-type, 'we're gonna break down the room by quadrants and find that darn hidden loot!'
Forgery is just another Craft skill, IMO, and Use Rope just goes away, along with Use Pencil and Use Fork. The presence or absence of rope is simply a circumstance modifier for Escape Artist, Climb, Profession (sailor, lawman, slaver, teamster), etc. checks, IMO. It's not a skill.
Spellcraft should be the application of magic, while Knowledge (arcana) is the study of magic. A non-spellcaster, such as a Monk or Rogue, could learn Knowledge (arcana), but only a spellcaster should be able to learn Spellcraft.
That being said, I'm not sure Spellcraft is *needed* as it's own skill. Wizards use it to recognize spells being cast, in preparation for counterspelling them. A Rogue should be able to recognize a spell being cast, since that sounds like a Knowledge (arcana) role, even if he couldn't do a thing to counterspell it (although he could decide whether or not it's worth using an AoO to try and interrupt it, depending on what he's figured out).
If a Spellcraft roll actually allowed a spellcaster to do something magically, perhaps affect his own spells via weak metamagic-type effects, or not damage an ally, or push it to a higher save DC with a great roll or something, then yeah, he'd be *crafting* his *spells,* but the written uses of Spellcraft don't really seem to do anything that Knowledge (arcana) couldn't cover. He's not 'applying' anything. Even if a Spellcraft check were to be used when the spellcaster is trying to cast a spell under adverse conditions, the skill would have some appropriate use, but no, that's a Concentration check!
In a house-ruled game where a spellcaster had to make a skill check to cast *any* spell (sort of like the Truenamer from Tome of Magic or Psychic from the Complete Psychic Handbook), then sure, Spellcraft would have a purpose, but, as written, it really doesn't.
That's a little too broad, I think. Geography and 'Naturalist' should perhaps be different skills.
Having Heal be Wisdom based instead of Intelligence based always seemed like a 'gimme' to the Clerics, since they use Wisdom as a prime score. I like this idea.
Knowledge (trade) is also a pretty neat idea.
Kisanji Arael
First Post
Ok, I have work soon, but my first thought is that singing and oratory are very different, and oratory could lend itself well to diplomacy.
Edit: If you need more reason for separating singing, think about riddling, rap, poetry, etc. The spoken word involves a certain amount of improv and adjustment based on the audience, whereas singing involves honing one's voice to produce certain kinds of sounds, and usually involves repeating songs already known to the speaker.
The raconteur and the chanteuse both use metre and their larynx. That is all they have in common.
Edit: If you need more reason for separating singing, think about riddling, rap, poetry, etc. The spoken word involves a certain amount of improv and adjustment based on the audience, whereas singing involves honing one's voice to produce certain kinds of sounds, and usually involves repeating songs already known to the speaker.
The raconteur and the chanteuse both use metre and their larynx. That is all they have in common.
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Turanil
First Post
My own radically compressed skill list is :
Acrobatics: DEX, (Balance, Climb, Tightrope walking, Tumbling, Escape bonds)
Athletics: STR, (Endurance, Jump, Swim, Bend Bars, Break Doors, Move heavy objects, etc.)
Deception: CHA, (Bluff, Disguise, Forgery, Scams, etc.)
Healing: WIS, (First Aid, Treat Injury, Surgery and HP-recovering potential)
Knowledge: INT, (choose one of the five following specialties)
1) Knowledge: Mundane (local + geography + history + heraldry + culture + etiquette, etc.)
2) Knowledge: Arcane (spellcraft, use-magic-devices, etc.)
3) Knowledge: Religion (various faiths, planes, etc.)
4) Knowledge: Nature (flora and fauna, survival, tracking, etc.)
5) Knowledge: Military (enemies' usual strategies, armies' organizations, engineering of war-machines and castles, etc.)
6) etc.
Language: INT, (Read and Write own language, + one additional language per Int bonus point.)
Manipulation: DEX, (Open Lock, Sleight of Hand, Pick Pocket, Use Rope, Disable Device, Remove Traps, etc.)
Notice: WIS, (Search, Spot, Listen, Smell, Taste, limited Sense-motive, etc.)
Persuasion: CHA, (Diplomacy, Gather information, Bargaining, Intimidate)
Profession: INT, (Merges together craft, profession and perform. Choose one activity such as Weaponsmithing / Carpenter / Juggler / Musician / Mariner / etc. This skill is the ability to craft / practice / trade / etc. the chosen activity, then to make a living from it, assess if others do it well, etc.)
1) Profession: Merchant (assess mundane items' approximate value and determine if unusual/rare items are junk or high quality, know where and to whom sell the item for best profits, etc.)
2) Profession: Smuggler (streetwise, merchant of illegal things, black market, etc.)
3) Profession: Robber (Innuendo/thief's cant; determine what's best to steal in a hurry; where to search, etc.)
4) etc.
Riding: WIS, (Ride + Animal handling of mount species)
Stealth: DEX, (Hide, Move Silently)
It is meant to be used with the alternate UA rule on skills, because with normal skill-points anyone could quickly become proficient in everything. In any case, I made this list based on d20 but for another game not d20.
Acrobatics: DEX, (Balance, Climb, Tightrope walking, Tumbling, Escape bonds)
Athletics: STR, (Endurance, Jump, Swim, Bend Bars, Break Doors, Move heavy objects, etc.)
Deception: CHA, (Bluff, Disguise, Forgery, Scams, etc.)
Healing: WIS, (First Aid, Treat Injury, Surgery and HP-recovering potential)
Knowledge: INT, (choose one of the five following specialties)
1) Knowledge: Mundane (local + geography + history + heraldry + culture + etiquette, etc.)
2) Knowledge: Arcane (spellcraft, use-magic-devices, etc.)
3) Knowledge: Religion (various faiths, planes, etc.)
4) Knowledge: Nature (flora and fauna, survival, tracking, etc.)
5) Knowledge: Military (enemies' usual strategies, armies' organizations, engineering of war-machines and castles, etc.)
6) etc.
Language: INT, (Read and Write own language, + one additional language per Int bonus point.)
Manipulation: DEX, (Open Lock, Sleight of Hand, Pick Pocket, Use Rope, Disable Device, Remove Traps, etc.)
Notice: WIS, (Search, Spot, Listen, Smell, Taste, limited Sense-motive, etc.)
Persuasion: CHA, (Diplomacy, Gather information, Bargaining, Intimidate)
Profession: INT, (Merges together craft, profession and perform. Choose one activity such as Weaponsmithing / Carpenter / Juggler / Musician / Mariner / etc. This skill is the ability to craft / practice / trade / etc. the chosen activity, then to make a living from it, assess if others do it well, etc.)
1) Profession: Merchant (assess mundane items' approximate value and determine if unusual/rare items are junk or high quality, know where and to whom sell the item for best profits, etc.)
2) Profession: Smuggler (streetwise, merchant of illegal things, black market, etc.)
3) Profession: Robber (Innuendo/thief's cant; determine what's best to steal in a hurry; where to search, etc.)
4) etc.
Riding: WIS, (Ride + Animal handling of mount species)
Stealth: DEX, (Hide, Move Silently)
It is meant to be used with the alternate UA rule on skills, because with normal skill-points anyone could quickly become proficient in everything. In any case, I made this list based on d20 but for another game not d20.
ôÔ
that's quite something here, Turanil
you realise that you compressed more than eve SWSE did? (and I found Saga already did a heavy use of the merging tool)
I like your wrapping of multiple uses in an generic Profession skill though, it does not change a thing balance-wise but make thing clearer. :hat_down:
on Healing and Stealth I totally agree too.
if only one need change, your Know.[arcana] is way too powerful: UMD is known to be one of the (if not THE) best skill available out there, and Spellcraft is very useful too (dispel, counterspell, assess encounter), wraping them together is no brainer :\
[edit (reread your lists)]
Manipulation is too all-inclusive too. on a second thought, Manipulation could be fine, depending on the campaign.
Notice on the other hand, should be enough with only the senses (Spot/Listen/Smell), letting Search for another use (Profession[Detective]?)
another question: do you keep the extra use of the skills various splatbooks give (I'm not talking about feat, just "new use for old skills")? Because if so, Acrobatics (which is potent) become really nasty: you can move 10ft as a 5ft-step with Tumble DC25 and you can use Balance to negate Trip (opposed roll) and Tremorsense (DC20(not so sure about the DC) to stand perfectly still) :\
[/edit]
I understand it's for a specific use where not anyone can have it, but, I would burn a feat slot without a second though just to hav access to one of these branches
that's quite something here, Turanil
you realise that you compressed more than eve SWSE did? (and I found Saga already did a heavy use of the merging tool)
I like your wrapping of multiple uses in an generic Profession skill though, it does not change a thing balance-wise but make thing clearer. :hat_down:
on Healing and Stealth I totally agree too.
if only one need change, your Know.[arcana] is way too powerful: UMD is known to be one of the (if not THE) best skill available out there, and Spellcraft is very useful too (dispel, counterspell, assess encounter), wraping them together is no brainer :\
[edit (reread your lists)]
Notice on the other hand, should be enough with only the senses (Spot/Listen/Smell), letting Search for another use (Profession[Detective]?)
another question: do you keep the extra use of the skills various splatbooks give (I'm not talking about feat, just "new use for old skills")? Because if so, Acrobatics (which is potent) become really nasty: you can move 10ft as a 5ft-step with Tumble DC25 and you can use Balance to negate Trip (opposed roll) and Tremorsense (DC20(not so sure about the DC) to stand perfectly still) :\
[/edit]
I understand it's for a specific use where not anyone can have it, but, I would burn a feat slot without a second though just to hav access to one of these branches
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