My new Skill list (feedback needed and appreciated!)

[Sadrik]

Here is what I would be using if I was DMing our group right now. We are currently playing by the book and it is painful. Getting 2 skill points per level +1 for human and several of them are automatically spoken for. Rough. This list I came up with has altered some by the announcements of some of the 4e skills. I for instance would have gotten rid of a couple of more of them (initiative)

Perfect Skill List
1. Acrobatics [DEX] (jump, tumble, balance, escape artist)
2. Act [CHA] (bluff, disguise, perform act, perform comedy)
3. Alchemy [INT] (appraise, craft and repair potions, poisons, antidotes, alchemical items, craft alchemy, profession herbalist)
4. Arcana [INT] (appraise, craft and repair magic, arcana, spellcraft, id dragons, planar creatures, and constructs)
5. Athletics [STR] (climb, swim, break doors, burst ropes, encumbrance)
6. Build [INT] (appraise, craft and repair buildings and structures, architecture and engineering)
7. Craft [INT] (appraise, craft and repair most things, craft items, arms and armor)
8. Diplomacy [CHA] (diplomacy, perform oratory)
9. Dungeoneering [INT] (nature, handle animal, survival but for underground, id animals, plants and oozes)
10. Finery [INT] (appraise, repair and craft fine things/art- including forgery)
11. Heal [INT]
12. History [INT] (history, local, nobility, royalty, id a religion, and humanoids)
13. Insight [WIS] (sense motive)
14. Initiative [DEX]
15. Intimidate [CHA]
16. Language [INT] (speak language, decipher script, id a language)
17. Music [CHA] (perform musical instrument, perform sing)
18. Nature [INT] (nature, handle animal, survival, id animals, plants and fey)
19. Occult [INT] (religion, id undead, and lycanthrope)
20. Perception [WIS] (spot, listen, search)
21. Pilot [DEX] (profession sailing)
22. Ride [DEX]
23. Stealth [DEX] (hide, move silently, sleight of hand)
24. Streetwise [CHA] (gather information, local)
25. Thievery [INT] (appraise, craft and repair traps, open locks, disable device)

Concentration (class ability)
Profession (gone)
Use magic device (class ability)
Use rope (gone)

 

[Afrodyte]

I'd say the main idea is definitely to get rid of 3 skills which do the same thing. Decipher script/forgery, hide/move silently, spot/search, etc. Also, I'm taking a very critical look at the Knowledge and Perform skills and I'm going to be seriously cutting them down to size, and fixing things I really think need fixing.

OK. That makes it easier to help. When redoing skills, I try to keep this in mind:

Skills are what characters DO, not what they have

The more you see skills as actions and not as objects/subjects, the easier it is to figure out what belongs where.

Here's a spoiler for my Knowledge skills:

• Knowledge: Arcana (INT) is for Knowledge: Arcana and Spellcraft checks. Used for info on Dragons, Constructs, Elementals and Magical Beasts.
• Knowledge: Astronomy (INT) is for Knowledge: the Planes checks. Used for info on Aberrations and all Outsiders.
• Knowledge: Cryptography (INT) takes over both Forgery and Decipher Script.
• Knowledge: History (INT)
• Knowledge: Nature & Geography (INT or WIS [depends]) is for Animals, Plants, Oozes, Vermin, Giants, Fey. All uses of the Survival skill now fall under it.
• Knowledge: Medicine (INT) is for all Heal checks, for which I've swapped out D20 Modern's Treat Injury skill.
• Knowledge: Politics and Laws (INT) Nobility, Royalty, etc.
• Knowledge: Races and Cultures (INT) is for Humanoids and Monstrous Humanoids.
• Knowledge: Religion (INT) is for info on Demons, Devils, Angels, Celestials (etc, you get the drift) and Undead.
• Knowledge: Trade, Antiques and Artifacts (INT) is for Appraise checks.

I'm ambivalent about most Knowledge skills. As it stands, they can be really useful or completely for flavor. I don't mind flavor, but it needs more oomph. Currently, a couple of classes dominate with Knowledge skills, while others don't get much even if it's appropriate.

There are a couple of ways to handle this. You can adapt every class's skill list and add fitting Knowledge skills. You will also have to note exceptions to classes that have all Knowledge skills as class skills. Or, you can redo the skill list to account for these bodies of knowledge while giving them to appropriate classes. It all depends on what you like. For the moment, I'm going under the assumption that you want these types of skills to be more useful and distinct from each other.

So, for Knowledge: Arcana, Knowledge: Cryptography, Knowledge: Medicine, and Knowledge: Nature, I'd simply make them the following skills: Arcana, Investigate, Medicine, and Nature.

With the others, I'd ask: What do PCs do with that knowledge?

Also, here are my Perform skill list:

• Perform: Act
• Perform: Dance
• Perform: Percussion Instruments
• Perform: Sing & Oratory
• Perform: String Instruments
• Perform: Wind Instruments

Are all the same, save for Comedy got folded into Acting, Oratory and Singing are now the same, and Keyboard Instruments got folded into String Instruments (which they are). Oh, and Disguise gets mixed into Perform: Act (and usually to succeed on a disguise, you'd need good ranks in both Perform: Act and Persuade: Convince, but more on the latter later

K. I've said it somewhere else, but performance should probably have more to do with some of the other social skills. At least consider synergy bonuses if applicable.

 

[Afrodyte]

I forgot: my own list

Granted, this was for a quasi-4e game I'd be interested in running. The uses for each skill is by no means exhaustive, but you get the idea.

Arcana (Int): learning spells, creating spells, using magical objects
Athletics (Str): climbing, jumping, swimming, running
Concentrate (Con): push your limits despite pain and/or distraction, focus your mind to aim better
Craft (Int): make and appraise smaller non-mechanical handiworks (like jewelry)
Empathize (Wis): discern personality/nature, understand motivations, predict behavior
Heal (Int): treat injury, poison, and disease; diagnose illness, poison, or cause of death; create poisons
Impress (Cha): inspire, intimidate, motivate, captivate
Investigate (Int): find clues, solve riddles, create and decode cyphers
Language (Int): speak, read, and write another language; figure out the meanings of an unfamiliar language based on the ones you already know
Larceny (Dex): conceal things, pick pockets, open locks, slip out of bonds
Lore (Int): apply knowledge of history, culture, philosophy, religion, literature, and art
Nature (Int): survive in the wilderness (any non-civilized environment), identify plants and animals, navigate
Observe (Wis): notice things with five senses and/or intuition
Persuade (Cha): negotiate, lie, cheat, seduce, debate/parley
Smith (Int): create and appraise larger non-mechanical handiworks (like weapons)
Sneak (Dex): hide, sneak, shadow
Streetwise (Wis): navigate civilized areas, make and work local contacts, uncover local rumors, get hard-to-find items, determine if something is legit or stolen, buy and sell on the local black market
Tinker (Int): fiddle around with mechanical objects (like traps and locks)
Tumble (Dex): flipping, cartwheeling, somersaults, tumbling, contorting, balancing

I'm not sure how to handle Perform and Profession skills, if at all. In practice, it seems that Perform and Profession skills can be folded into other skills. Maybe feats could add some specialization or something.

 

[Triangleman27]

My list

Acrobatics (Balance + Tumble)
Alertness (Spot + Listen)
Animal Handling (unchanged)
Arcana (Spellcraft + Use Magic Device)
Athletics (Swim + Climb + Jump)
Concentration (unchanged)
Craft (unchanged)
Deception (Bluff + Disguise + Forgery)
Empathy (Sense Motive with broader uses)
Expression (Perform with broader uses)
Heal (unchanged)
Intimidation (unchanged)
Knowledge (unchanged)
Language (Speak Language + Decipher Script)
Larceny (Sleight of Hand + Escape Artist)
Mercantile (Appraise with broader uses)
Persuasion (Diplomacy + Gather Info)
Profession (unchanged)
Ride (unchanged)
Search (unchanged)
Security (Disable Device + Open Lock)
Stealth (Move Silently + Hide)
Survival (unchanged)
Taunt (need to work on this to avoid Diablo 2 comparisons)
Technology (For Steam-punk settings)

I don't tie anything into Abilities but rather let the player use whatever Ability modifier fits the situation. Feats and magical effects give bonuses to checks, not skills. Anything involving movement, stealth or fine motor coordination takes an armor check penalty. Bubye Use Rope.

Pardon the White Wolf influence

 

[Jackelope King]

My own list from a heavily modified, point-buy d20 homebrew-in-the-works:

Also note that there is no Knowledge skill: anyone can use Intelligence to modify any ranks they have in any skill to modify knowledge checks pertinent to that skill (so to answer who won the 1980 World Series, you could make an Athletics check, modified by Intelligence instead of Strength). The profession skill has similarly been removed, and turned into a feat which grants a bonus to a few specific uses of different skills associated with a profession (it also works well with people who have low intelligence and skill ranks, but a seemingly encyclopedic knowledge about what's going on in the tabloids).

Strength
* Athletics- Climb, Jump, Swim
* Might- Lift, Carry, Grapple

Dexterity
* Acrobatics- Tumble, Jump, Balance
* Infiltration- Disable Device, Open Lock, Hide, Move Silently
* Reflex- Initiative
* Vehicles- Ride, Pilot, Land Vehicles, Sea Vehicles

Constitution
* Fortitude- Save-turned-SWSE-style Defense
* Endurance- Force-march, go without food or water, stay awake for long periods of time

Intelligence
* Academics- Search for clues, liberal arts knowledges (business, civics, history, etc.)
* Science- Medicine, Life Sciences, Physical Sciences, some craft
* Technology- Electronics, engineering, computers, craft

Wisdom
* Expertise- Akin to spellcraft, but applicable to many different disciplines (such as martial arts, undead hunting, etc.)
* Perception- Spot/Listen/Sense Motive turned into something like a SWSE Defense, with search thrown in as an "active" use
* Survival-Traditional survival skill broken into chunks according environment (desert, forest, urban) and mixed with Gather Information (re-branded "reconnaissance")

Charisma
* Art- Perform, disguise, craft (artwork)
* Persuasion- Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate based on Rich Burlew's interaction modifiers
* Will- standard d20 will save turned into a SWSE-style Defense

Combat (not modified by any ability score)
* Defense- Good ol' Armor Class, lost when flat-footed (can be supplemented by Uncanny Dodge to maintain some ranks when flat-footed)
* Weapon Group- Attack bonus, taken for individual subsets of weapons
* Toughness- Hit points become a toughness save which becomes a SWSE-style defense

 

[Nyaricus]

Heh, I love how every thread I make in House Rules turns into a WDYD? thread Man, you guys are awesome, but now I have so much more to think over in regards to skills....

cheers,
--N