My @!@#! Player abusing Feather Fall

[drnuncheon]

So, you think it is ok for ALL spellcasters to say:

"I use my move action to wave my arms as if casting a spell, just to be sure there are no archers out there. I then use a standard action to cast the spell."

It would be allowable for them to attempt a Bluff check to get that effect. This player doesn't need to Bluff, though - he really is casting a spell. I'd allow the Bluff to be opposed by either Sense Motive or Spellcraft.

Taking it one step further, the ONLY reason this tactic works is because the rule does NOT say "If you get hit at all during a round, any spell casting you attempt requires a concentration check."

If that were the rule, then this "bluff action" as you call it wouldn't work either.

The ONLY reason you have to make a concentration check is because the rules say so, too. Clearly the "reasonable roleplaying action" is to put arrows into the mage as quickly as possible so he dies before he can cast. So the archers are metagaming (by your standards) because they're waiting to try to force a concentration check rather than just shooting the guy.

J

 

[RuminDange]

Thanks for posting that.

I could have sworn it was a rule, but when I tried to find it in the SRD, I couldn't.

That's good for the original poster. The rules prevent the readied arrows from firing when the spell caster casts the Screw U spell, and they then fire when he casts his real spell.

Kudos.

Yes but the rules also require if my memory is correct that the archer make a spellcraft skill check to determine someone is casting spell. So by seeing a spell effect, they know a spell is cast do they fire now or wait until they determine a spell is in the process of being cast? It could be the little ball of fire streaking thier way for the fireball or a floating finger, unless they have spellcraft ranks they have no idea a spell is being cast, what the spell is or what it does. But they can tell when a spell has been cast just not what. How then do they ready action against a spellcaster in the first place?
If the DM can exploit the rules to use readied actions with the NPC's knowing for sure they are firing when someone is casting a spell, then why not let the player draw thier fire with a spell effect so he can cover his good spell. Still sounds like a clever idea for a high intelligent wizard to do in a world where everyone can detect a spell being cast without skill spellcraft.

RD

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I think the rules support the fact that you cannot ready an action against a Quickened Spell.

Would you allow the following Readied action?

"If he speaks, I'll shoot him."

 

[Evilhalfling]

Without a house rule like this, this Screw U spell isn't even needed. A caster could pretend to cast as a move or free action, get hit by an arrow, and then cast anyway.

Yoink
I think this is just lovely.
I enjoy clever tactics and this goes into the lexicon, for both PC and NPC's
your NPC archers may just have to give up on the tactic of holding for spellcasters.

 

[DreadPirateMurphy]

Hm. Um, I would disagree with the metagaming claim. D&D combat is an abstraction of what is actually going on. People don't actually just stand around in combat, waiting for their turn. The player is stating that his character is doing something in the context of that abstraction. There isn't anything terribly unbelievable about provoking the bad guy to let loose an arrow, then doing something (like dashing to another piece of cover) while he is reloading.

However, I definitely agree that quickened spells don't trigger readied actions, because they don't trigger AoO. See p.144 of the Player's Handbook. You have to actually notice that something is going on to respond to it.

One thing that I would allow would be another character pretending to cast a spell, as long as they won an opposed bluff check. The attempt would count as their attack action, and it would let a beefier character draw the readied attacks away from the caster. Under 3E, even a character in plate armor with a broadsword could be a cleric.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Clever or not, it's most definitely metagaming. If you were a real wizard being threatened by potential enemy fire, what difference would it make to you if you were shot immediately before or during spellcasting? Either way you're still being shot, and that would be of paramount concern. The fact that the rules distinguish between casting during and immediately before is just that - the rules; something that a character would have absolutely no conception of. What's the wizard thinking, "Oh, I can just cast my really quick feather fall spell to provoke their attack and then they won't be able to shoot me when I cast the spell I really want." How would he know that? That's metagaming.

It's a clever use of a loophole in the rules, nothing more and nothing less. Considering that it basically nullifies readied actions to counter spells as a tactic for the lowly cost of a 1st-lvl spell, I'd disallow it.

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

Would you allow the following Readied action?

"If he speaks, I'll shoot him."

Of course, but the arrow would hit the speaking character AFTER that he had spoken, unless the ready action had been: "I shoot him if he opens his mouth".

AR

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

Isn't using a skill usually a standard action? So a wizard couldn't pretend to cast a spell convincingly (ie, Bluff check) AND cast a real spell (ie, cast a spell) during the same round...

AR

 

[Pbartender]

First of all, the player is simply coming up with an annoyingly over-used tactic to counteract your annoying over-used tactic. That's fair game, I think.

That aside...

If he starts to get that agrivating.. hit them with things that cause continuous damage or have a chance to disrupt spellcasting in later rounds as well... Beam the guy with a Thunderstone and blind or deafen him or shoot him with alchemist fire or alchemy arrows. Lets see him cast a spell while he's on fire!! These are things that enemies can use on anyone to great effect. the Thunderstone being primarly for caster's but the fire great for everyone. have a wizard or rogue with UMD Smack em with a Hidious Laughter spell or grease the area. Have him get his priorities straight... and just for kicks... throw a pit trap here and their at em or have a spell that creates a pit trap under a character... feather fall.. then figure out a way out of the hole! of course he cant target anyone except anyone that is above the hole!

Alchemist Fire, Thunderstones, Smoke Sticks, etc... dont have to be a caster to use em. I'm sure theirs an Itching powder or similar 'distracting' thing out their... I think their's a spell called Buzzing Bee which interfear's with a caster's ability to cast spells. And Complete Adventurer has a number of wonderful Mage-Slayer stuff.

Edit: Ohyah.. and dont forget Whisper Gnome's and Silencing Strike (expecially with Improved Feint to make sure you get your sneek attack)

I think Zephyrus has the right idea here. Stop readying actions, and start using continual distractions. Hit him with Melf's Acid Arrows, Creeping Cold spells, tag him with an Entangle, drop a net on him, light him on fire, stick him in the middle of a blizzard, or on board the deck of a pitching ship.

Do it once or twice to prove that his tactic won't work anymore. Once your player gets the idea, lay off for a bit. You don't need to be disrupting his spells every combat any more than he needs to to screwing up your readied actions. Find a few new and innovative tricks to toss at them.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Of course, but the arrow would hit the speaking character AFTER that he had spoken, unless the ready action had been: "I shoot him if he opens his mouth".

So, you *can* ready an action against a free action. That invalidates your earlier assessment that you couldn't ready an action against a spell cast as a free action.

So, per the rules for Concentration that you were nice enough to quote, the readied actions go off, the caster gets hit, but, by the same rules:

In general, if an action wouldn’t normally provoke an attack of opportunity, you need not make a Concentration check to avoid being distracted.

So he doesn't need to make the Concentration check to lose his Quickened / "No, YOUR Mother!" spell, and since the archers don't have any arrows ready any more, he can proceed to cast his Fireball without getting hit in the arm while reaching for his guano-and-sulphur vials.

Again, this is still an excellent, excellent tactic (especially if he's got some protection against normal missiles active).

Go PC!