My players are scared of ruining the balance

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

and to keep the game from getting stale I like to incorporate new things into my game.

What does this mean? What do you think is stale about your game?

 

[Agent Oracle]

To paraphrase an old engineering adage. "There is Balance, flexibility, and ease of play, youcan have two."

 

[pogre]

I love 'Buy the Numbers', but my players' reactions were much the same as yours.

 

[Michael Silverbane]

Well... Since you don't mind doing the work and like exploring new systems / material... You could try working out the extra number-crunching yourself... Pregenerate some characters using the Buy the Numbers supplement, and have your players use those characters in a one-off... That way, you get to have the best of both worlds... Your players are exposed to something new, and they don't have to worry about the extra book-keeping or the balance issues. At the end of your one-shot, you can ask them if they liked what they saw of the system and if they want to continue that game, or if they want to go back to the way that they were doing things... Maybe they'll like it, then it'll perhaps be easier to introduce them to new concepts in the future... And if they don't like it, there'll have been no harm done, and it should be easier to introduce them to new concepts in the future.

Later
silver

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

my players are very reluctant to use non-WOTC rules. This fear of ruining balance has even extended to books released by Monte Cook and Green Ronin, most of which seem extremely balanced to me.

Have any other DM’s run into this? It seems like a waste not to explore new rules and supplements with all of the great d20 products out there.

I'm the poster child for that around here (or at least it seems like that to me).

I'm currently in 2 groups that have some membership crossover. The older group predates the release of 3Ed.

Those games were D&D Core books + Player's Option + Class/Race books (no kits). There was a 6 month RIFTS campaign, too. Occasionally, we'd play a game like Battletech or Star Fleet Battles.

With the release of 3Ed, almost everything else stopped. We still play non-rpg games, but besides those, the only rpg being played is 3.XEd Core + Softcover classbooks/Completes (no psionics, no 3rd party books).

AU/AE? Iron Heroes? Midnight? Spycraft? Mutants & Masterminds? Not a chance- I can't even get them to try D20 Modern or Urban Arcana! When I ran a campaign that allowed 3rd party products, they stuck to the WotC stuff.

Forget other good systems/rpgs out there like HERO, Deadlands, Godlike, Paranoia, or Space 1889.

And since the other group has some crossover with the "haters," even THAT DM is doomed to playing D&D...though he, like me, runs a much more open game. Still, D&D has to be the core to keep certain players involved. (King of the sticks-in-the-mud is a mutal friend of 20+ years.)

The moral?

You may have to find other players to satisfy your jones for other rpg fun.

The power gamers care about the system; the players just care about the gameplay, at least in my experience.

I have to say in my fellow gamers' defense is its less about "powergaming" than time concerns about learning a new system (most of the players are in their 30's with families), a certain fear of the unknown, and a total lack of interest in any rpg that isn't grounded in high-fantasy.

 

[Pyoor]

Thanks for all of the replies. I've been lurking in the boards for quite some time, but really haven't felt the need to post before.

I think I might take Silverbane's advice and pregen a few characters for them to give them a taste of the system.

I'm glad to hear there are others out there who've run into this. I thought my players were a particularly rare breed.

I guess I assumed that my players would want more flexibility than what is offered in the core game and I thought I would be doing them a favor. Oh well, they've zigged plenty of times when I thought they would zag.

I've allowed some "official" races and classes in the past. Some worked and some didn't, but I feel you'll never really know unless you try. I got completely trounced as a DM because I allowed players to be a Warlock to use the Karmic Strike feat(not at the same time ). I don't know if they are balanced or not, but they didn't work in those particular campaigns.

(Psi) Severed Head asked what I feel gets stale about my game and I don't have a specific answer. I like trying new things and some times as a DM I feel like I get burned out. Normally I only use the three core books and I was hoping the players would be as enthusiasitc as I was for something new.

Thanks again everyone!

 

[fafhrd]

Any time you begin to feel that your player's rules priorities are too conservative you should get down on your knees and thank whatever divinities, alignments, or ethos you believe in for the following:

1) Your players care
2) They aren't cheeseweasles
3) They seem to retain enough innocence to believe in a WotC universe of rules harmony where the combos are balanced and the demon lords fearsome.

Don't wake the baby...