My poor LBEG - what went wrong?

[devilish]

As long as every encounter isn't a cakewalk for the players, I'd say you did nothing wrong at all.

Reflecting on it, I am being hard on myself. The TBEG (tiny in import, not
size) forced them into retreat the level above with a measly wand of
magic missle, firing in the dark. I'm sure there was much rejoicing that
this didn't happen again and LBEG went down hard.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

On the other hand, don't beat yourself up about this. I bet if you ask the players about it, they'll say they had a blast--and isn't that one of the most important things about DMing? Every now and then as a player it's immensely satisfying to wipe the floor with an encounter; when the DM expects it to be tough, it adds an extra bit of satisfaction to the victory.

As long as every encounter isn't a cakewalk for the players, I'd say you did nothing wrong at all.

This is a very, very important lesson for DMs. I've seen a lot of DMs on these boards who seem to think that every encounter should push the PCs to their limits, but Pielorinho's words are a lesson that the best DMs take to heart. Sometimes the players have the most fun when they manage to crush their enemies handily, and surprising the DM can add to that, even for players who are not of the player vs. DM mentality. Just an extra bit of fun.

As a DM, I don't mind when the occasional encounter goes very well for the PCs. It balances those encounters that I figure should be easy, that wind up turning into a life-or-death struggle. It's the beauty of rolling the dice.

 

[Stormrunner]

So you have a CR 5 necromancer (wizard or cleric? cleric is tougher as they can bolster the undead, which forces the PC cleric to use more than one turning attempt to nuke all of them), and a handful of zombies (too low-CR to affect the EL) for an EL of 5. Versus a party of 6 3-4th level characters, which is roughly equivalent to CR 5. Seems to me this makes it an "average" encounter, not "very difficult". Very Difficult would be a 7-8th level caster with a mix of living guards and undead.

As for "add more undead", the module is correct that a 5th level caster can only control 10 HD of critters, which is 5 zombies, or 10 skeletons. I would have swapped out 2 zombies for 4 skeletons, since (as you found out) zombies are too slow to intercept moving PCs. Adding a guard on the door, or simply locking the door so the party can't just waltz in, helps a lot too, allowing the LBEG at least one round of buffing before combat.

Spellcasters in general are weaker than their CR if caught unprepared with no buffs up (which was the case here), and tougher if they have enough time to buff up as much as they want.

 

[kigmatzomat]

Skeletons are pretty easy to anhiliate but the do serve one purpose for necromancers: decent bodyguards. A zombie ordered to attack anyone who approaches has to wait for their initiative since they can't hold action. A Skeleton *can* hold action and even if flat-footed in regards to initiative will still get a single shot of on any who charges through the area. Unlike the living, skeletons do not suffer physical or mental fatigue and can remain in "combat mode" for eternity.

 

[Gomez]

This is a very, very important lesson for DMs. I've seen a lot of DMs on these boards who seem to think that every encounter should push the PCs to their limits, but Pielorinho's words are a lesson that the best DMs take to heart. Sometimes the players have the most fun when they manage to crush their enemies handily, and surprising the DM can add to that, even for players who are not of the player vs. DM mentality. Just an extra bit of fun.

As a DM, I don't mind when the occasional encounter goes very well for the PCs. It balances those encounters that I figure should be easy, that wind up turning into a life-or-death struggle. It's the beauty of rolling the dice.

I cannot agree more! Well said.

 

[Hypersmurf]

A zombie ordered to attack anyone who approaches has to wait for their initiative since they can't hold action.

Why one earth not?

In fact, Zombies have a special advantage when it comes to Readying - they can Ready a Charge, and nobody else can (except under special circumstances, like the Surprise round).

-Hyp.

 

[Len]

In fact, Zombies have a special advantage when it comes to Readying - they can Ready a Charge, and nobody else can (except under special circumstances, like the Surprise round).

But in order to do that they need to bring along a lawyer to explain the rules loophole to the PCs.
(And don't forget to count the lawyer against the necro's undead HD limit.)

 

[devilish]

Skeletons are pretty easy to anhiliate but the do serve one purpose for necromancers: decent bodyguards. A zombie ordered to attack anyone who approaches has to wait for their initiative since they can't hold action. A Skeleton *can* hold action and even if flat-footed in regards to initiative will still get a single shot of on any who charges through the area. Unlike the living, skeletons do not suffer physical or mental fatigue and can remain in "combat mode" for eternity.

But you can only hold an action once your initiative comes around, right?
So if there were skeletons instead of zombies, the fighter still could've
zig-zagged his way between them because they can't get an AoO until
they're no longer flat-footed/gone through 1 initiative cycle.
This is presuming no prep-time and no surprise : characters burst in, necro
wasn't involved with anything.

If the necro did have prep time, then I suppose the rounds would've started
before the door was kicked in and then the necro could've told the
zombies to "not-be-flatfooted/stand-ready" and then they would've
been able to AoO the fighter as he crossed in front of them.

Zombies, if I read write, can do AoO even though they are slow. AoO is not
listed as a full-round action, which is the only thing they can't do.

 

[devilish]

But in order to do that they need to bring along a lawyer to explain the rules loophole to the PCs.
(And don't forget to count the lawyer against the necro's undead HD limit.)

For the benefit of our viewers at home, I'd like to explain the loophole since I
just had to look it up.

Zombies can only perform a single move or attack action EXCEPT they can
perform a charge attack. A charge attack is listed as a full round action but
given the last sentence, in the case of zombies, charge-attack = single move
or charge-attack = standard attack action.

You can only ready a standard action, a move action, or a free action.

Very clever --- I'll print this out for next campaign as a quick-lawyerly reference

 

[monboesen]

Let me get this ríght. The party opens the door and walks in. They see the necromancer and the zombies (and vice versa). The necromancer speaks to them and they decide to attack.

IMO no one is flatfooted in this situation. There is no surprise and everyone can clearly see each other. I would roll for initiative and let everyone be eligble for taking AOO and so on.

I don't even know if thats the way its supposed to be handled, but thats how I do it whenever both sides of a combat are aware of each other and no one takes any special action to surprise the other.


Some newbie DM advice.

Rules for how many HD's worth of Undead a necromancer can control and other like things are, again IMO, something to use for the players. To keep them balanced with each other. For an NPC I would stick in the amount of Zombies I think it will take to make the encounter as difficult as I want it to be.

Don't get caught up in to many mechanics as a DM. Stick to the combat mechanics most of the time, but when it comes to npc generation and ability. Well let them have the abilities you would like them to and don't worry to much why.

Maybe your necromancer have done heineous deeds and sold his soul in order to control more zombies. It usually doesn't matter as long as its not something the players could/would do.