Yaarel
Mind Mage
Wait. Are you saying that there is no difference between lineages, except a personality trait?I guess we just disagree.
If so, of course, I disagree!
Wait. Are you saying that there is no difference between lineages, except a personality trait?I guess we just disagree.
From the Wikipedia entry:Being childlike and curious about new things, isnt a separate species.
Also. The Halfling values "hardwork", "loyal outlook", "abundant rewards", and they can defend themselves "ferociously". There is some kind of ambition here. Family and home, ... legacy and estate, ... is a form of ambition.
But again.
Personality ≠ Lineage
The Elf differs physiologically because of planar origin and magical nature, but the appearance of it is subtle.
The Halfling as a Half-Gnome, would be physiologically nonhuman in origin. Even better if the Gnome is Fey.
Hairy shoeless feet: heh, sorry for your 5e loss.hairy shoeless feet, natural stealthiness, and round jovial faces, in terms of physical traits.
In other words.From the Wikipedia entry:
"Tolkien presented hobbits as relatives of the human race, or a "variety" or separate "branch"of humanity. In Tolkien's fictional world, hobbits and other races are aware of the similarities between humans and hobbits (hence the colloquial terms for each other of "Big People" and "Little People"); nevertheless, the hobbits consider themselves a separate people."
Really? Your humans build underground cities and are united in their hatred of a specific enemy?Your dwarves and gnomes sound pretty human to me.
It's a perfectly plausible way to describe a human civilization, yes. Hell, a lot of the elements are comparable to the existing Human write up.Really? Your humans build underground cities and are united in their hatred of a specific enemy?
Look, I'm not talking about the quality here. Just the fact that halflings do stand out here as being 100% replaceable by humans without any changes other than about 3 feet vertically. Dwarves and gnomes might describe some humans, at best, but, the halfling description is pretty much indistinguishable from how you would describe most of humanity.
Sorry, but, how did I not just do that? I took the word for word description of halflings in the PHB and simply substituted humans. It worked perfectly fine. Since the argument is that halflings are just short humans, well, that is pretty strong evidence no? The counter argument that all the races are just (Insert trait here) humans doesn't hold much water when you cannot actually substitute human for those other races.It's a perfectly plausible way to describe a human civilization, yes. Hell, a lot of the elements are comparable to the existing Human write up.
Do yourself a favor, compare the PHB human write up to the halfling one directly. They aren't similar.
lThe diminutive humans survive in a world full of larger creatures by avoiding notice or, barring that, avoiding offense. Standing about 3 feet tall, they appear relatively harmless and so have managed to survive for centuries in the shadow of empires and on the edges of wars and political strife. They are inclined to be stout, weighing between 40 and 45 pounds.
Humans’ skin ranges from tan to pale with a ruddy cast, and their hair is usually brown or sandy brown and wavy. They have brown or hazel eyes. Human men often sport long sideburns, but beards are rare among them and mustaches even more so. They like to wear simple, comfortable, and practical clothes, favoring bright colors.
Human practicality extends beyond their clothing. They’re concerned with basic needs and simple pleasures and have little use for ostentation. Even the wealthiest of halflings keep their treasures locked in a cellar rather than on display for all to see. They have a knack for finding the most straightforward solution to a problem, and have little patience for dithering.
Kind a n d Curious Humans are an affable and cheerful people. They cherish the bonds of family and friendship as well as the comforts of hearth and home, harboring few dreams of gold or glory. Even adventurers among them usually venture into the world for reasons of community, friendship, wanderlust, or curiosity. They love discovering new things, even simple things, such as an exotic food or an unfamiliar style of clothing. Humansare easily moved to pity and hate to see any living thing suffer. They are generous, happily sharing what they have even in lean times.
Bl e n din t ot h e Crowd Humans are adept at fitting into a community of humans, dwarves, or elves, making themselves valuable and welcome. The combination of their inherent stealth and their unassuming nature helps humans to avoid unwanted attention. Humans work readily with others, and they are loyal to their friends, whether Human or otherwise. They can display remarkable ferocity when their friends, families, or communities are threatened.
Pa s t o r a l Pleasantries Most Humans live in small, peaceful communities with large farms and well-kept groves. They rarely build kingdoms of their own or even hold much land beyond their quiet shires. They typically don’t recognize any sort of human nobility or royalty, instead looking to family elders to guide them. Families preserve their traditional ways despite the rise and fall of empires.Many humans live among other races, where the humans’ hard work and loyal outlook offer them abundant rewards and creature comforts. Some human communities travel as a way of life, driving wagons or guiding boats from place to place and maintaining no permanent home.
Humans. “Humans are a lot like us, really. At least some of them are. Step out of the castles and keeps, go talk to the farmers and herders and you’ll find good, solid folk. Not that there’s anything wrong with the barons and soldiers—you have to admire their conviction. And by protecting their own lands, they protect us as well.”
What else would we expect? This is exactly the literary purpose for which JRRT invented Hobbits: to be completely conventional English folk (as he imagined such folk).The description of the Halfling 100% purely utterly completely identically totally HUMAN!
You should try Burning Wheel.I want D&D elves to be less Tolkien elves and more nature beings, earthy being of vegetation or skyey being of sunlight.
At least even Tolkien had some kind of nod toward a nonhuman magical origin and heritage.
I think this is true. But why, then, are Halfling defenders trying to argue that Halflings aren't - in terms of culture and heritage - just interchangeable with humans? That seems like overthinking, or at least overreaching.People just weirdly overthink things.
People play halflings because they want to play short plucky heroes.
Anything beyond that is pretty limited to probably less than 1% of D&D players.
Yeah I think it is.I think this is true. But why, then, are Halfling defenders trying to argue that Halflings aren't - in terms of culture and heritage - just interchangeable with humans? That seems like overthinking, or at least overreaching.
Has anyone ever encountered a plucky half-ogre or half-giant?The only real true distinction from humans is their greater pluck. Potential levels of pluck being a quality of directly inverse proportionality to one's height.
Can you explain again why you feel the need to ask another poster their opinion, and then when they give it to you you try to tell them why their opinion is wrong?Hairy shoeless feet: heh, sorry for your 5e loss.
Round jovial faces: no problem.
Natural stealthiness: the 5e mechanics and lore for Halfling could do more to emphasize this, in ways that are clearly nonhuman.
In other words.
The Halfling is a Human!
The Halfling isnt a separate lineage.
The Halfling is a physically diverse Human ethnicity.
A Human nation is a "people".
That is what I have been saying all along.
The Halfling can be deleted from the list of lineages and added to the list of Human ethnicities.
The Halfling is way too Human.
Let's flip this around. Dwarves live underground and Duregar (which are also dwarves) live even more underground. Elves love the forest but some elves also live more underground. Gnomes live all over the place, and some gnomes live more underground.Really? Your humans build underground cities and are united in their hatred of a specific enemy?
Look, I'm not talking about the quality here. Just the fact that halflings do stand out here as being 100% replaceable by humans without any changes other than about 3 feet vertically. Dwarves and gnomes might describe some humans, at best, but, the halfling description is pretty much indistinguishable from how you would describe most of humanity.
Stout halflings!Yeah, almost everyone else had an underdark equivalent. Where are the deep humans?
/snip
So what keeps humans from having had an offshoot go more underground (just like dwarves, elves, and gnomes) that carved itself cities there BESIDES an arbitrary decision by the writer of the fiction?
/snip
biology we get soft and lose eyes down in the dark hence we can't live down there.Yeah, almost everyone else had an underdark equivalent. Where are the deep humans?
Swimming upthread a bit for this quote because I think this really gets to the heart of the issue for me.Yeah. That's what I still don't quite get from this thread. Just don't play a halfling or ban them from your game. Or quit your game if you feel strongly about it. I've noted previously that the "do it my way" feeling can be rather pervasive sometimes. When it's all said and done WOTC owns the game and they probably are well aware of the backlash they would get if they removed halflings from the PHB or errata'ed them out. They run a business and want to generate revenue and that means casting a big net. Their main target audience is not people like us who quibble about what page halflings are on![]()
By contrast.
Humans like the comforts of home. Most humans do.
Many humans want a place to settle in peace and quiet, in safety.
Humans loving hearths and ovens and fireplaces, is a thing.
Humans love fine drink, obviously.
Humans love fine conversation, obviously. Humans are social creatures.
Most humans live in "agricultural communities", especially in a medievalesque setting.
Many humans live in nomadic cultures.
Many humans are curious and have wanderlust. This is a thing! Especially for stories about humans who set off on an adventure.
Human adventurers too love new foods, new sights, new clothes, new cultures.
The description of the Halfling 100% purely utterly completely identically totally HUMAN!