D&D General My Problem(s) With Halflings, and How To Create Engaging/Interesting Fantasy Races

[Minigiant]

The description of humans bears as much weight when applied to a single human as the other descriptions bear for their respective races. In other words, it means very little.

If someone who wants to play a dwarven pirate or brave halfling paladin, I'm not not gonna point to the PHB and say "well Ruled
As Described", you are not allowed to do that...because RAD you have to be a cave dwelling miner or a gardener. Likewise a funny, jokester dwarf or gluttonous elf would be fine too. They don't all have to be dour and taciturn or slender or vegan or whatever.

I think the issue is NPCs.

In D&D, PCs are expected to be a bit weird.
The issue with halfings is the NPCs. People often buld PC stories off the lives of the NPCs.

And a human criminal/entertainer/peasanthero/urchin has the exact same story a halfling one.

The 5e PHB/FR/Greyhawk/Mystara halfling is a racial redundancy made for hardcore LOTR fans.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I'll let you have your gish gallop and I'll just say that I feel that the halfling race is presented as the distillation of the ideal of the commoner. In general, they want for nothing more than comfort, friends, family, and food.

I agree it is the distillation of the commoner.

Problem. Every single race has commoners. All of them. And halflings commoners are... commoners. Exactly like human commoners. Exactly like dragonborn commoners.

The issue is that "distillation of commoner" is still just a commoner and doesn't really do something that being a commoner doesn't achieve.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Saying that something could be done doesn't mean that it has been done. (I think @Hussar said the same thing upthread.)

And I don't think "magical" and "otherworldly" are meaningless or lazy in the context of a D&D-ish FRPG. They're literal descriptions that establish fiction.

Now if nothing in play turns on the fact that elves are magical and otherworldy, that's a different thing: but its not a problem with the conception of elves, its a problem with actually taking backstory seriously in gameplay.

Just because hacky, lazy writing hasn't happened doesn't mean it needs to happen.

"Magical" and "otherworldly" are just as lazy in the context of D&D as they are elsewhere, if not moreso. The most you get out of them is that something is weird or different, which is especially meaningless in the context of a fantasy rpg, where weird and different is the stock and trade.

And elven and halfling traits could be described as equally magical and otherworldy. Charm resistance vs. Fear resistance, luck vs. trance. Dex bonus vs. Dex bonus.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Elves caring for a fruit orchard makes perfect sense. Elves raising herds of horses or other swift animals also make sense. Actually, since elves are famous for Elven wine, I imagine elven grape and berry farmers are quite common.

If your only conception of a farm involves potato farming, I can see how you could be confused.

"their skill and magic allow them to support themselves without the need for clearing and plowing land."

Classic farmboys.

 

[FrozenNorth]

I personally wouldn't have used the term "destroyed" but I do think some people want to effectively remove the halfling as we know it from the game. As far as popularity, what threshold do we need? According to the best numbers we have they're between 5-6% of the PCs played. That's actually quite good considering how many races are available.

To me, this seems like “an argument to the status quo”. The 538 article from 2017 (from where we are both pulling numbers) doesn’t control for the vast majority of races that you have to pay to use. So it is disingenuous to say that halflings are 5%-6% of all races played as if they are on an even footing with tabaxi that are only available if the player purchases Volo’s (a book that is otherwise very DM facing).

It also treats the core races as if they were the same as other races. People who distinguish them have pointed out reasons why that might not be the case: halflings get two subraces (compared to 1 for dragonborn, half-orcs and half-elves). Most D&D board games and adjacent media feature one of each core race and maybe one extra character. Simple inertia likely boosts the original core races as well.

But back to the 5-6% figure. According to the 538 article, the halfling is the least played race of the core races. The next least played? Dwarves with more than 50% MORE players than halflings! Halflings are a niche race. I think even those in favour of the status quo admit that.

@Chaosmancer ‘s argument seems to be that if halflings don’t want to remain a niche race, they should be changed. Or, they could be treated like the niche race they are and not included as one of the core 4.

Saying that you generally don’t play tieflings is obscuring the issue. From 538, it appears that tieflings are LESS of a niche race than halflings, despite having traditionally less promotion.

It seems to me that there is never a shortage of people arguing to maintain the status quo, despite the fact that the status quo does not reflect the extraordinary change in our hobby in the last 5 years. I think that is the shame.

I also think that more recent WotC books are starting to reflect these changes. Tasha’s, Rime of the Frostmaiden, Candlekeep Mysteries and Van Ricten’s Guide to Ravenloft seem to have more art and more NPCs that are tieflings, full-blooded orcs and dragonborn.

I believe that WotC probably has pretty up to date stats about which races are played (I know I would if I were them). I suspect that this will influence which races are included in the future PHB. And I hope WotC ignores those who claim that changes to the PHB line-up are the work of “haters” or that by making changes, WotC “destroyed” certain lineages.

 

[Chaosmancer]

It is as unambiguously non-human as you are willing to read it.

It seems like you are keyed to physiological differences. Like adding horns and purple skin makes tieflings meaningfully different than humans.

But a human would have a much easier time negotiating with a Tiefling, because they are likely to share common values than they would with a halfling who isn't motivated by wealth or power.

It's like this. You want to hire someone to work for you. What does a "pay" discussion look like, if the person you are hiring doesn't care at all about money. Do you pledge trade of services, guarantee exciting or interesting times, promise introductions to entertaining or unusual people?

Except that there is not a single reason to believe that Halflings don't care about money. They don't care about wealth, but that is very different.

I don't care about wealth. I really have no real desire to be a billionaire. I do care about money, and I will have issues with people who try to have me do work without pay.

 

[lingual]

I think the issue is NPCs.

In D&D, PCs are expected to be a bit weird.
The issue with halfings is the NPCs. People often buld PC stories off the lives of the NPCs.

And a human criminal/entertainer/peasanthero/urchin has the exact same story a halfling one.

The 5e PHB/FR/Greyhawk/Mystara halfling is a racial redundancy made for hardcore LOTR fans.

I guess that depends on the fabric of the setting. An urban elf scoundrel probably has a more interesting back story than a human who grew up in the city. Likewise a halfling captain of the guard. Halflings are probably similar to the rabbits in Zootopia and Judy Hops' story was probably more interesting than some tiger who became a cop.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Yeah, almost everyone else had an underdark equivalent. Where are the deep humans?

I believe canonically that is the Grimlocks. While the Derro I believe are gnomes.

Halflings... don't get one

 

[Gammadoodler]

Except that there is not a single reason to believe that Halflings don't care about money. They don't care about wealth, but that is very different.

I don't care about wealth. I really have no real desire to be a billionaire. I do care about money, and I will have issues with people who try to have me do work without pay.

From MtoF:

"As do many other races, halflings enjoy accumulating personal possessions. But unlike with most other races, a halfling’s idea of value has little if anything to do with monetary concerns. A typical halfling’s most prized possessions are those that have the most interesting stories attached to them.

 

[FrozenNorth]

The description of humans bears as much weight when applied to a single human as the other descriptions bear for their respective races. In other words, it means very little.

If someone who wants to play a dwarven pirate or brave halfling paladin, I'm not not gonna point to the PHB and say "well Ruled
As Described", you are not allowed to do that...because RAD you have to be a cave dwelling miner or a gardener. Likewise a funny, jokester dwarf or gluttonous elf would be fine too. They don't all have to be dour and taciturn or slender or vegan or whatever.

If “A” (or even several) PCs turns stereotypes on their heads or even ignore the descriptions, no issues.

If most (or even many) of the characters bear little or no resemblance to the way the race is described in the PHB, I’m definitely going to consider that the description of the race is a poor one.

To take a not-so-random example, if a race is described as having Lawful Good tendencies, I’m going to wonder if most of the PCs I see are Chaotic rogues.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Why is this a Issue? I find it completely ok for NPCs to be the type and PCs to be played against type. To me it seems the halfling was created to support well the story of the hero that abandons their roots to pursue destiny... That's what Bilbo did anyway.

I can't speak for Hussar, but part of it is that other races are far easier to play by type and against type. But a halfling PC played by type... can't be a PC for long or must be forced into every single adventure.

Edit: Seems I was right on the money. And yes, it would require changing halflings somewhat to fix this problem. Which is what we have been advocating for.

 

[Faolyn]

I think this is true. But why, then, are Halfling defenders trying to argue that Halflings aren't - in terms of culture and heritage - just interchangeable with humans? That seems like overthinking, or at least overreaching.

Because there are people who are trying to say that halflings shouldn't be in the PH because they are just short humans.

 

[Faolyn]

Being lucky is also a human trope.

But not a human trait.

A Human can take the Lucky feat at level 1 as part of the character concept and be noticeably lucky, moreso than a Halfling.

But that would be an unusual human. A typical halfling is Lucky.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Let's continue with our cut and replace of halflings with humans:



Maybe a couple of quibbles, but, not really out of line. And not something you could do with elves.

I think probably the best bit comes from the relations with humans section:



I mean, good grief, it's RIGHT THERE. They flat out state that halflings aren't terribly different from common humans. It's not like people are inventing this stuff out of thin air. But, sure, try to do the same thing with elves. Or dragonborn. See if it still sounds like a human.

It is very unusual for humans to lack ambition but still be productive, to have no concern for legacy or being remembered, to not have to fight against internal biases against outsiders, and of course we sadly have no particularly special luck.

You keep acting like folks are saying there are no similarities, again hyperbolizing those you disagree with. This is why so many folks react so strongly and negatively to your arguments.

 

[Minigiant]

I guess that depends on the fabric of the setting. An urban elf scoundrel probably has a more interesting back story than a human who grew up in the city. Likewise a halfling captain of the guard. Halflings are probably similar to the rabbits in Zootopia and Judy Hops' story was probably more interesting than some tiger who became a cop.

But tigers don't farm. But a rabbit and a mouse would have the same farmer backstory.

That's the core issue we keep coming to.
Everything a halfling does, a human also does in the same exact way. And humans can do other stuff normally like be nobles or soldiers.

Whereas dwarves and dragonborn do things different from humans.

The 5e halfling is redundant because it is copied froma series where men didn't do the same things as halflings.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Cutting out the dead weight and breaking the game away from the moldering corpse of Tolkien has been a drum I've been banging since early 3e days

By phrasing it like this you are being incredibly disrespectful to the dead, and to those who love his work. It’s a disgusting thing to do.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I personally wouldn't have used the term "destroyed" but I do think some people want to effectively remove the halfling as we know it from the game. As far as popularity, what threshold do we need? According to the best numbers we have they're between 5-6% of the PCs played. That's actually quite good considering how many races are available.

Going from personal experience, halflings are about as common as a lot of the non-human races. Should they be a common race? Who cares? Whether you like it or not, D&D has been and likely always will have a shared heritage with LOTR and halflings are part of that heritage right along with elves, dwarves and how dragons are depicted. While we aren't playing Adventures in Middle Earth by default (I'm sure some people do), there is still an expectation that some of the visuals will remain the same.

A compelling case to me is not "make them more aggressive like every other race". If you don't want to play halflings, there are a ton of other options. All I ask, all anyone is asking, is that you leave us our particular niche race alone even if you don't want to play them. Personally I don't think I'll ever play a tiefling, doesn't mean I'm telling everyone they should be removed from the PHB.

Change for the sake of change is not justification.

And not a SINGLE POSTER has put forth the case that we should make them more aggressive. No one. Not once.

Can you please stop strawmanning everyone? Every time we have to circle back to remind you that no, we aren't saying that thing, and then we need to dig through dozens of posts to prove we didn't say that thing, it just wastes time.

No one has talked about making haflings more aggressive.
The only put forth "delete them from the PHB" has actually been "move them to the MM" which was Hussar, who has repeatedly indicated that they 100% believe that putting them in the MM leaves them as a playable race option.

My own changes to lore could be ignored if you want, and don't need to effect every single halfling, there could still be plenty of halfling commoners.

So, not a single person is trying to take your preferred niche race away. Not even a little bit. It will still be there. Stop with the Strawmen.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Yeah if halflings can't take the place of humans in their description on the PHB... PHB humans can't take the place of the halflings. The problem here is we assumePHB humans are the same as us, so if we see ourselves in halflings we see PHB humans

Okay, I've asked this question a few times now.

How are DnD humans not human? Why are they inhuman?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Why is this a Issue? I find it completely ok for NPCs to be the type and PCs to be played against type. To me it seems the halfling was created to support well the story of the hero that abandons their roots to pursue destiny... That's what Bilbo did anyway.

It also isn’t true, to be fair.

Every halfling I’ve played has fit that description, and either had good reason to leave what they wanted from life behind for a time to do something that needed done, or were quite young and traveling the world to see what’s out there before settling down and starting a family.

 

[Faolyn]

Yeah, almost everyone else had an underdark equivalent. Where are the deep humans?

Grimlocks. Another people who got messed up by the mind flayers.