D&D General My Problem(s) With Halflings, and How To Create Engaging/Interesting Fantasy Races

[Neonchameleon]

For Dragonborn, is that counting all of the different colors together? and for Tieflings all of the different origins used?

I didn't until this point realise that there was more than one tiefling bloodline, and few players will have Mordaniken's Tome of Foes; I don't believe the numbers change substantially. And yes it counts the colours together; they are fundamentally the same archetype in a way the two elf-types aren't, only differing in damage type, damage shape, and whether dex or con save.

How tieflings and dragonborn would change if they had any significant mechanical variety in core is an open question

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Even if you exclude evil elves snd evil dwarves, elves and dwarves have a much greater presence than halflings.

But to answer your question, YES! The fact that elves and dwarves are prominent in the adventures (whether as a ally or an antagonist) contributes to the impression that they are core to the setting.

And those evil-schisms not only provide lore about the subraces, but also about the main races themselves. Lolth’e lore runs straight into her fight with Corellon, and the duerger’s origins are tied with those of dwarves.

But all this matters only if you assume we would care about Forgotten Realms. And why would we?

 

[FrozenNorth]

It depends what you mean by elves. Tieflings and Dragonborn are both more popular than dwarves. Elves on the other hand remain more popular but only when you include both high elves and wood elves together and tieflings and dragonborn are more popular than either individually.

Yes. It is sort of a self-reinforcing circle. Elves are more popular because a wide variety of sub-races allow a great variety of builds (you can have your tree-hugger elf, your magic-focus elf or your underground angsty elf). But they are also given more sub-races than other races precisely because they are popular…

One solution would be to treat the sub-races as separate races, but I am concerned that this would lead to fewer non-elf races overall, so this is not a solution I would recommend.

 

[Gammadoodler]

That's the whole discussion.

Halflings are just Hobbits lifted wholesale from Tolkien and given a pantheon because every race has one. It melds into the game basically in no other way.

It is as if Wookies were added to D&D because Star Wars, renamed Woolies, given a god, and then shoved as important without any other entanglement with the game.


Some are fine with that.
Some are not.

This is an odd take.. There seems to be an opening assumption that there was much of a pre-existing game to mesh with where all this rich and varied backstory was already tied together, strongly tying other races into the game..Which seems rather backward vs. my understanding of where D&D lore comes from.

Additionally, I'm legitimately curious what "melding into the game" actually looks like. What would be a good example of the appropriate amount of entanglement?

(Also, to be clear, I'm not saying that you're wrong about how tied to D&D worlds halflings are. I tend to agree that they are factually underrepresented. I just don't think that underrepresentation is tied to anything inherent about the race even with the Tolkien influence.)

 

[FrozenNorth]

But all this matters only if you assume we would care about Forgotten Realms. And why would we?

The argument is that people feel that halflings feel less attached to the world because there is so little lore about them.

To quote @Minigiant :

The argument is that Halfling lack the racial items, interracial relationships, various cultures, pantheon relationship, civilization history, pantheon lore, famous character, and the rest humans, dwarves, and elves have.

Having lots of elven and dwarven in the 5e published adventures reinforces that, regardless of whether the DM runs a game in FG or simply mines the book for ideas.

You can always take the position: “Lore, LORE? We don’t need no stinkin’ lore!”, but to many posters, on both sides of the issue, lore is important.

Also, since no one has raised any issues with the mechanical representation of halflings, lore is pretty much the only issue being discussed.

 

[Yaarel]

It depends what you mean by elves. Tieflings and Dragonborn are both more popular than dwarves. Elves on the other hand remain more popular but only when you include both high elves and wood elves together and tieflings and dragonborn are more popular than either individually.

Yup.

And I do include Half Elf as part of the Elf lineage. Heh, especially when I feel strongly that Charisma is the "correct" ability for the Elf.

 

[carkl3000]

The argument is that people feel that halflings feel less attached to the world because there is so little lore about them.

To quote @Minigiant :

Having lots of elven and dwarven in the 5e published adventures reinforces that, regardless of whether the DM runs a game in FG or simply mines the book for ideas.

You can always take the position: “Lore, LORE? We don’t need no stinkin’ lore!”, but to many posters, on both sides of the issue, lore is important.

Also, since no one has raised any issues with the mechanical representation of halflings, lore is pretty much the only issue being discussed.

Isn't there someone in the thread who has taken issue with every mechanical representation of halflings, though?

 

[Crimson Longinus]

The argument is that people feel that halflings feel less attached to the world because there is so little lore about them.

To quote @Minigiant :

Having lots of elven and dwarven in the 5e published adventures reinforces that, regardless of whether the DM runs a game in FG or simply mines the book for ideas.

If the argument is that Forgotten Realms lore is bad, I agree; if the argument is that halflings are bad, I don't.

You can always take the position: “Lore, LORE? We don’t need no stinkin’ lore!”, but to many posters, on both sides of the issue, lore is important.

Also, since no one has raised any issues with the mechanical representation of halflings, lore is pretty much the only issue being discussed.

Lore is important. You're supposed to make up most of it for your own setting.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

You mean... just say the thing I think is my opinion, that shows a difference in culture, that is in no way written in the PHB...

I can, what does that show about the PHB? The thing we were actually talking about?

This is a really simple reading comprehension issue, so it’s the only thing I’m going to reply to from you today.

Go back and read what I replied to, read whatI replied, and don’t try to read any extra stuff into it. Because you’re now replying as if to a completely different comment than the one you’ve quoted.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Ah right, sorry. It was that they were the only race to believe in peace, tranquility, joy, happiness.

Okay this one, too, because same issue. The thing you quote right after saying this…is not saying that.