D&D General My Problem(s) With Halflings, and How To Create Engaging/Interesting Fantasy Races

[Chaosmancer]

Go ahead and tell me what the most important thing to happen in Kentucky, North Dakota, or Idaho was in the past year besides Covid. Something specific to each state.

No fair looking it up, denizens of the Forgotten Realms don't have access to the internet. But YOU live in the information age....so surely at some point the past year you will remember SOMETHING that happened in those states, right?

Or maybe certain areas get a LOT of attention...like the coasts, Texas, Chicago, Denver.....and other areas get zero attention....vast swathes of the continental US that nobody hears about and might as well not exist in other people's minds.

This is the niche of the halflings. They are the flyover race. The race that's happy to work their 40 hours at the farm and then have an exciting visit to the "big city" nobody has heard of to go to Applebee's (which they still like).

It's not unfathomable giant numbers of people can live their whole life without notice or attention or world shattering contributions to the era. They are Nebraska, Ohio, and Mississippi.

This is a pretty major false dichotomy.

1st of all, just because we didn't memorize every major event (except for THE major event... you know, kind of like Dragon Goddess being summoned to destroy the world type of event) doesn't mean that those events didn't happen. I also assume you wouldn't accept the BLM protests, the Jan 6th riots, or just the shot in the dark guesses that there were some mass shootings over the course of the year.

Secondly, you are talking regions and we are talking people. You know, it is amusing that everyone compares halflings to land. They are Ohio, they are Switzerland, people just don't pay attention to them... But you've heard of Carl Jung right? He was Swiss. You know Ohio has had four US presidents and was the home of Aviation and where man learned to Fly, right?

The point was never that "there is no where in the world where halflings could live that something important we would have heard of happened" it was that "halflings are never important" is mind-boggling. And, not only does it defy probablity, we know for a fact, literally for an absolute fact, that it is wrong. Because we know Halfling Adventurers exist. But, they exist in a quantum state of "only when the players are halflings" because a halfling adventurer is basically never important enough to be involved in any major disaster anywhere.

 

[Chaosmancer]

You (Chaosmancer) seem to be asking questions looking for an in-fiction explanation that will make sense in accordance with basic canons of historical and social-scientific reasoning.

I think that's a mistake. There is no such explanation available! The fact that Halflings are underestimated and overlooked is not something that is to be explained by reference to the (imagined) properties of the fictional communities. It's a literary conceit, imposed on the fiction to serve a particular aesthetic purpose.

@Neonchameleon and @doctorbadwolf (I think I'm remembering properly) have already said as much. I think @Sabathius42 is making much the same point by saying "This is an archetype some people like to play". It's not a very effective response to an aesthetically-driven conception to argue that it makes no sense in terms of the imagined in-fiction causality.

Yes and no.

IF we put forth a literary conceit that Gnomes are inventors, and then never show gnomes inventing anything, then our conceit is unfounded. It is telling us something that we are not shown. And one of the big things in any sort of writing is "show, don't tell". And part of this is because you can tell someone a "fact" about your story/world/character but if it doesn't come up, if it isn't shown, then it feels false.


I actually have a DnD example too. I played with someone once who wanted their Earth Genasi to be terrified of water. She told us that this was the case, and one time she mentioned how they cowered under a blanket while we were on a large ship. She also lept through a flash flood in a cave, because she had meta-knowledge that it was an illusion.

She told us that her character had a crippling fear, but when it came time to show us... the fear wasn't real.


If the only reason for halflings being overlooked is because we say they are overlooked... then it is a weak literary element. IT creates dissonance because there is no reason for them to be overlooked, no real way to show it in the story, and they end up feeling less tied into the story and more just cartoon stickers pasted onto the world.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

You (Chaosmancer) seem to be asking questions looking for an in-fiction explanation that will make sense in accordance with basic canons of historical and social-scientific reasoning.

I think that's a mistake. There is no such explanation available! The fact that Halflings are underestimated and overlooked is not something that is to be explained by reference to the (imagined) properties of the fictional communities. It's a literary conceit, imposed on the fiction to serve a particular aesthetic purpose.

@Neonchameleon and @doctorbadwolf (I think I'm remembering properly) have already said as much. I think @Sabathius42 is making much the same point by saying "This is an archetype some people like to play". It's not a very effective response to an aesthetically-driven conception to argue that it makes no sense in terms of the imagined in-fiction causality.

He’s just gonna nitpick your wording and aggressively miss the point, but yeah that is part of it.

This is a pretty major false dichotomy.

1st of all, just because we didn't memorize every major event (except for THE major event... you know, kind of like Dragon Goddess being summoned to destroy the world type of event) doesn't mean that those events didn't happen. I also assume you wouldn't accept the BLM protests, the Jan 6th riots, or just the shot in the dark guesses that there were some mass shootings over the course of the year.

Secondly, you are talking regions and we are talking people. You know, it is amusing that everyone compares halflings to land. They are Ohio, they are Switzerland, people just don't pay attention to them... But you've heard of Carl Jung right? He was Swiss. You know Ohio has had four US presidents and was the home of Aviation and where man learned to Fly, right?

The point was never that "there is no where in the world where halflings could live that something important we would have heard of happened" it was that "halflings are never important" is mind-boggling. And, not only does it defy probablity, we know for a fact, literally for an absolute fact, that it is wrong. Because we know Halfling Adventurers exist. But, they exist in a quantum state of "only when the players are halflings" because a halfling adventurer is basically never important enough to be involved in any major disaster anywhere.

We literally see Halfling NPC adventurers and former adventurers in published adventures. Others have quoted them to you.

 

[Chaosmancer]

He’s just gonna nitpick your wording and aggressively miss the point, but yeah that is part of it.

We literally see Halfling NPC adventurers and former adventurers in published adventures. Others have quoted them to you.

Um... as far as I'm aware I'm the only one who went through an adventure and pulled out names. The only other people "quoting" adventures have either been looking for "how many times does the word appear" or they have talked about NPCs who are innkeepers or other commoners to show that halflings do appear.

So, I have no idea which quotes you are talking about. Unless you are thinking I quoted at myself? You could also be thinking of people who blocked me, I know I've missed more than one thing since that information is hidden.


But, beside the point, let's assume for a minute that you are right. Lots of NPC adventurers and former adventurers in published adventures.... why then are halflings underestimated? Why are they never involved in anything major... if halfling adventurers exist and have been involved in major events?

What wanna-be warlord sees a bunch of halflings going on adventures and causing problems and says "Well, halflings are no threat. They never go out and cause problems."


It is almost like people want halflings to be two things simultaneously.

1) Halflings are simple quiet folk who never get involved in a major world event. Everyone over looks them because they never do anything more than live simple quiet lives of comfort.

2) Halflings are constantly going on adventures, getting involved with danger and finding treasure. They are stalwart in the defense of their homes and fearless in the face of danger.

Nobody overlooks a race that includes #2. That would be literally insane.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Nobody overlooks a race that includes #2. That would be literally insane.

That is a nonsensical claim. We are talking about individual adventurers. That isn’t remotely anything like a people being noteworthy enough to seek out trouble with.

 

[Bardic Dave]

If the only reason for halflings being overlooked is because we say they are overlooked... then it is a weak literary element. IT creates dissonance because there is no reason for them to be overlooked, no real way to show it in the story, and they end up feeling less tied into the story and more just cartoon stickers pasted onto the world.

I find your argument wholly unconvincing. I can intellectually understand why this line of argument could make sense to a particular person with a particular set of aesthetic preferences and design priorities, and how Halflings could pose a problem to that person. However, I am not such a person, nor are most people who play D&D.

As long as you continue to insist insist your preferred paradigm is the only valid lens through which to evaluate the game, you won’t make any headway in this discussion.

EDIT: to put it another way, the things that are important to you and that you build your argument around simply don’t matter that much to most people. The dissonance that you say exists between the narrative conceit of an unassuming, pastoral group of people and the supposed lack of fictional justification for their status as such just isn’t a issue for most people. It simply doesn’t have the weight for most people that it does for you.

Also, I disagree that there isn’t sufficient fictional justification. There is plenty as has been pointed out to you, it’s just not good enough for YOU, which is fair enough, but it’s not the same as there being an actual problem.

EDIT2: Despite my earlier tongue-in-cheek posts to the contrary, I actually think the very existence of dragonborn is dumb and unnecessary for a whole host of reasons that make sense to me. I’m not going to bore you with them, because I expect you to be wholly unconvinced unless you happen to share my aesthetic preferences. I’m not going to write paragraphs articulating why you’re wrong for liking dragonborn as is, because that would be unproductive and patronizing.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

J

This is a pretty major false dichotomy.

1st of all, just because we didn't memorize every major event (except for THE major event... you know, kind of like Dragon Goddess being summoned to destroy the world type of event) doesn't mean that those events didn't happen. I also assume you wouldn't accept the BLM protests, the Jan 6th riots, or just the shot in the dark guesses that there were some mass shootings over the course of the year.

Secondly, you are talking regions and we are talking people. You know, it is amusing that everyone compares halflings to land. They are Ohio, they are Switzerland, people just don't pay attention to them... But you've heard of Carl Jung right? He was Swiss. You know Ohio has had four US presidents and was the home of Aviation and where man learned to Fly, right?

The point was never that "there is no where in the world where halflings could live that something important we would have heard of happened" it was that "halflings are never important" is mind-boggling. And, not only does it defy probablity, we know for a fact, literally for an absolute fact, that it is wrong. Because we know Halfling Adventurers exist. But, they exist in a quantum state of "only when the players are halflings" because a halfling adventurer is basically never important enough to be involved in any major disaster anywhere.

So are you, by the logic of the first paragraph, saying that things do happen in the areas nobody talks about but that those things are shadowed by bigger events that are either universal in scope or that happen in areas that get more attention? Kind of like a village of halflings might defeat a goblin bandit king but nobody hears about it because at the same time some crazy shenanigans were going down in Baldurs Gate and that's what everyone is talking about?

Half the races in the PHB are 100% regional in their description. Dwarves=mountains. Elves=forest. Lizardfolk=swamp. Halflings=farmland. How does this not map to modern day as a parallel?

 

[Don Durito]

Half the races in the PHB are 100% regional in their description. Dwarves=mountains. Elves=forest. Lizardfolk=swamp. Halflings=farmland. How does this not map to modern day as a parallel?

It's interesting how this fits in with the orginal intended humanocentric setting. With the exception of halflings, every other non-human pc race lives in lands that are marginal in human historical terms.

The reasoning for this is obvious. You can plonk down your roughly human kingdoms in a historically plausible way, and then you just add the non-human homelands here and there around the edges.

The halflings are the only ones that live inside human lands.

This does have the effect that in D&D mountains feel like they must be the prime real estate. You have Dwarves, Orcs, goblins, Goliaths, Cloud Giants and Dragons all living in the mountain ranges. Obviously the humans are just left with the rich farmland that noone else wants, and the halflings with the richest most fertile land that not even the humans want.

 

[Chaosmancer]

That is a nonsensical claim. We are talking about individual adventurers. That isn’t remotely anything like a people being noteworthy enough to seek out trouble with.

But those individual adventurers are part of that people right? Halfling wizards, clerics, druids, bards, and warlocks exist right?

So... humans built a kingdom and they have a church with clerics who worship a god, and they have a holy relic that is targeted by some group.... but halflings have a village, with a church, with clerics who worship a god... and they aren't worth considering or even caring about?

Driz'zt and his companions, many current leaders in the Sword Coast, multiple villains... all of these people are "individual adventurers" they are certainly worth noticing, but a halfling adventurer showing up to stop an evil ritual, or to fight against an army is totally unexpected because.... why? They clearly exist, they clearly do that thing, halflings clearly have magical classes and rogues and all these puzzle pieces that makes everyone else worthy of being paid attention, but they are ignored because they don't do anything and are nothing but simple folk who lead simple lives? You can't be both a race that provides a ton of badass adventurers and be a race of people who never do anything important or get involved in all these plots and issues that adventurers get involved in.

 

[Bardic Dave]

It's interesting how this fits in with the orginal intended humanocentric setting. With the exception of halflings, every other non-human pc race lives in lands that are marginal in human historical terms.

The reasoning for this is obvious. You can plonk down your roughly human kingdoms in a historically plausible way, and then you just add the non-human homelands here and there around the edges.

The halflings are the only ones that live inside human lands.

This does have the effect that in D&D mountains feel like they must be the prime real estate. You have Dwarves, Orcs, goblins, Goliaths, Cloud Giants and Dragons all living in the mountain ranges. Obviously the humans are just left with the rich farmland that noone else wants, and the halflings with the richest most fertile land that not even the humans want.

Yeah, it’s almost as if those design decisions were made for aesthetic reasons—as a narrative conceit if you will—and the need for an in-fiction explanation for these pecularities was thought to be unnecessary/irrelevant! Implausible/unexplained demographic distributions in my fantasy game? The horror!