D&D General My Problem(s) With Halflings, and How To Create Engaging/Interesting Fantasy Races

[Yaarel]

Can you explain again why you feel the need to ask another poster their opinion, and then when they give it to you you try to tell them why their opinion is wrong?

What is your end goal? Is it to convince everyone in this thread to stop liking what they like because you don't like it? Are you going to keep refuting opinions until no opinions differ from your own?

You asked...they answered. It's not a debate because it's an opinion.

Your post mischaracterizes my post, as if I thought his opinion was wrong. Quite the opposite.

I wanted to know what @Mistwell loved about the Halfling because, while I view the Halfling as problematic, I dont want a "solution" that ruins what he loves about the Halfling.



His point that Tolkien himself considered the Halfling (Hobbit) to be a Human is significant.

For any other race, the Halfling would simply be called a "subrace", and there would not be much concern about it.

However, for the Human race to call an other Human something other than a normal Human, is actual, reallife, racism.

So there are only two alternatives. Either make the Halfling a fully-Human "Ethnicity" who is part of normal Human diversity, or else make the Halfling more obviously nonhuman.

Either way, the Halfling is way too Human. The concept must officially be a Human or disambiguously not a Human.

 

[Bolares]

oh, we are judging if the reasons other people like stuff is worthy now? Good to know

 

[Cadence]

so a small race.

Yes, small race is good.

that is not applicable.

Wait, you support invasive species.

do you only read the hobbit and lotr?

Can't I have lots of favorites?

anyone can be an underdog and the reverse is also true it depends on context.

Anyone can be woodsy or a minor or have dragons blood (sorcerer), but some wear it better.

name a fantasy race that would not make a good airbnb theme?

Tieflings apparently smell like farts or rotten eggs

they are not overused literally because there is almost nothing to them.

Except save the world because the elves, dwarves, and humans let Sauron make them rings and the Ents wouldn't stop talking otherwise.

how do they feel un dnd they were made for dnd?

So was other new fangled official stuff like Dark Sun and Eberron and a ton of home brew things. Doesn't mean they fit with the way "the game was meant to be"(TM).

depends on what a god wants, your list there is technically a viable god race making criteria.

I kind of like the idea of the gods taking in to account my favorites.

that is nice for you but irrelevant from whether something works.

Not according to your previous (un-bulleted!?!?!) list entry.

and what did the class do?

you will need heavier stones.

They might have already used them...

we are far more likely to never see dragonlance again than that.

I'm guessing there will be a mixture of gnashing of teeth and of rejoicing about the degree of changes.

 

[Yaarel]

As for Elves, well... a race that doesn't engage in agriculture or do hard work doesn't really make sense. Elves must farm and do hard work, or... well... I guess they are REALLY etherial, then, aren't they?

The Elves that are part of the Material Plane, in fact, eat food. The require a source of food.

But there are several reasons why the Elf does not farm.

• The Wood Elf (at least my campaign emphasizes this) is a nomadic hunter-gatherer, traveling in extended families.

• The High Elf lives in the forest, not in open grasslands that suitable for farming crops. This Elf eats from tree products.

• The Uda Drow probably have slaves do the farming, to farm funguses and various subterranean meats.

• The Eladrin are ethereal spirits in the Feywild, seem would not need to eat, but enjoy it, and magically conjure food.

This notable aversion to farming, makes the Elf feel alien to most of Europe where farming is ubiquitous. However the Elf feels somewhat Nordic, where the farmable land can be scarce, and most of the population subsists on hunting-gathering, including fishing and berry picking, at least seasonally.

 

[Oofta]

...
Either way, the Halfling is way too Human. The concept must officially be a Human or disambiguously not a Human.

Simply repeating the same assertion does not make it true.

Which is the problem with this thread ... there hasn't been anything new for a long time. Want to know why people like halflings? Go back a few thousand posts. Don't think some people want to change the very essence of halflings? Take a look at the posts where they're a political force to be reckoned with by making themselves diplomats or maintain the lore of every nation or be famous for their military units.

Yes, every race has commoners. Most races also have kings, queens, mighty warriors. Most have kingdoms and cities, people that will be recorded in history books for various deeds. People who want to be noticed because they are entertainers or politicians.

That's simply not who are what halflings are. If 1 in 100 (making up a random number here) of humans seek glory, fame and/or riches whether or not they actually achieve it, then it's 1 in 10,000 halflings that seek out the same. Even when halflings go adventuring it's not for fame, glory or wealth, it's to see what's out there or because they are forced to do so. Halflings may use money because barter is a pain, but they don't care about bling. They may become notable and change world events, but not because they seek it out.

It's not that some humans couldn't also have the same story as the average halfling. Humans could pretty much tell the story of every race because every race simply represents some trope and archetype of humanity.

Round and round it goes

1. Halflings should be different so that I personally like them!
2. Halflings are fine the way they are, a significant percentage of people enjoy playing them.
3. go to step 1.

 

[Cadence]

It's starting to appear that Halflings are the most discussion worthy of all of the races. That feels like it qualifies in and of itself as a reason to keep them in a place of prominence!

 

[Mind of tempest]

Yes, small race is good.


Wait, you support invasive species.


Can't I have lots of favorites?


Anyone can be woodsy or a minor or have dragons blood (sorcerer), but some wear it better.


Tieflings apparently smell like farts or rotten eggs


Except save the world because the elves, dwarves, and humans let Sauron make them rings and the Ents wouldn't stop talking otherwise.


So was other new fangled official stuff like Dark Sun and Eberron and a ton of home brew things. Doesn't mean they fit with the way "the game was meant to be"(TM).


I kind of like the idea of the gods taking in to account my favorites.


Not according to your previous (un-bulleted!?!?!) list entry.

give humans are technically an invasive species logically yes.

nothing wrong with favourites just those are like eating a brick they are dense and difficult to read through.

true but your point do not necessitate the halfling at present.

I want to a secondary school that always smelled like raw sewage you can just get used to it.

they are a caricature of people I am fairly likely to be literally related to believe me when I say they are hollow, I do not begrudge the world-saving just that they do not ever seem to catch on as the elves and dwarves have.

the way it was meant to be played was 99% humans and just looting tombs so honestly, the change has been good overall.

well god can like things so logically one of them must have the same taste as you.

I still want to know what the class was like so we have the faintest idea of what they were made to be.

It's starting to appear that Halflings are the most discussion worthy of all of the races. That feels like it qualifies in and of itself as a reason to keep them in a place of prominence!

I mean no one is making threads about other races if you want to see if you can get the same out of the others be my guest.

 

[Yaarel]

Simply repeating the same assertion does not make it true.

It is selfevident the Halfling is way too Human.

People might disagree how problematic this fact is for the game, but either way it is entangling concerns about reallife racism by declaring it possible for a Human to be a nonhuman.

Besides, people today often critique Tolkiens works to have racist elements, so there is also a need to be cautious about what Tolkien assumed to be ethical.

Yes, every race has commoners. Most races also have kings, queens, mighty warriors. Most have kingdoms and cities, people that will be recorded in history books for various deeds. People who want to be noticed because they are entertainers or politicians.

That's simply not who are what halflings are. If 1 in 100 (making up a random number here) of humans seek glory, fame and/or riches whether or not they actually achieve it, then it's 1 in 10,000 halflings that seek out the same. Even when halflings go adventuring it's not for fame, glory or wealth, it's to see what's out there or because they are forced to do so. Halflings may use money because barter is a pain, but they don't care about bling. They may become notable and change world events, but not because they seek it out.

It's not that some humans couldn't also have the same story as the average halfling. Humans could pretty much tell the story of every race because every race simply represents some trope and archetype of humanity.

Round and round it goes

1. Halflings should be different so that I personally like them!
2. Halflings are fine the way they are, a significant percentage of people enjoy playing them.
3. go to step 1.

What you are saying seems close to saying Halflings dont advance in levels. They are unsuitable for a player character.

Especially, much of a D&D class is a fighting style for combat encounters, which the Halflings, as you seem to say, are adverse to.



Compare human societies. I use a formula to estimate what levels the leaders of a population are:

Population ≈ 10 ^Level/2

So, for example, a Human population of about 10,000 would tend to have Level 8 leaders.

The formula is a rough estimate, and ignores unique individuals who might show up anywhere among humanity.



You seem to be saying, the Halfling tends to be a Level 0 commoner to an extreme degree.

 

[Yaarel]

I disagree. They are the simple, fulfilled, happy side of humanity. The rare side that doesn't need to conquer and lacks ambition... for the most part. They are the heightenned chill of not wanting to go to a party on sundays hahah

I am totally ok with making the Halfling a happy part of humanity.

Remove the Halfling from the lineages, and at the concept in the list of Human ethnicities.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Round and round it goes

1. Halflings should be different so that I personally like them!
2. Halflings are fine the way they are, a significant percentage of people enjoy playing them.
3. go to step 1.

It’s like a carousel. Not a big one with fanciful beasts and carriages (like Elves would make), but a simple small (like a Halfling) playground one.