My problem with Monte Cook...

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By the way, I don't really agree with the tenor of Monte's rant. That is, while he's not inaccurate with his assessments, for the most part, it doesn't necessarily follow that corporations are inherently bad. It's the numbskulls who run them that are bad, in a number of cases, many of which we've seen on the news lately. But like any tool that man has created, corporations can be used for good or ill.

EDIT: typo
 
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Re: Re: Re: My problem with Monte Cook...

hammymchamham said:
I don't remember stating what bands or styles of music I like, but it does seem that you have stated, in an atempt of objectifity, that the Music industry is ruined.
Um...no.

There's an implied tag to everything *anybody* says, and that's "I believe..." or "I think..." Generally that doesn't need to be stated, but I see I was wrong in this case.

It is my OPINION that the music industry (at the executive level) is composed primarily of dung-flinging monkeys.

Since that's my opinion, that means that, to ME (and me alone) it is indistinguishable from fact.

Anyway, I didn't feel like posting an exhaustive list of all my reasons for thinking that way, because that was totally not the point of my example. So, for those who missed my point entirely:

(I believe) committee thinking ruins many, if not most creative endeavors.

The intention wasn't to start a debate, it was a simple statement that I agreed with Monte's apparent point based on what I've seen of a committee's effect on any type of creative pursuit.
 

I don't mean to be rude, but what is the topic of this thread? Some are talking about music, others bashing Monte Cook's opinion, others are bashing Monte Cook's work. Is this a free for all? If so, I would like to chime in that I don't like Barney. Just my two cents. While I am at it, I really hate those labels on matresses and pillows, the ones that say do not remove.
 

Re: Re: Re: Re: My problem with Monte Cook...

derverdammte said:

Um...no.

There's an implied tag to everything *anybody* says, and that's "I believe..." or "I think..." Generally that doesn't need to be stated, but I see I was wrong in this case.


So as I read this AP report about an airplane crashing, I'll remember that its just the authors opinion that the airplane crashed, not a fact. That it was the authors opinion that 24 people died. Thanks for reminding me that "There's an implied tag to everything *anybody* says..."
 

shouit said:
If so, I would like to chime in that I don't like Barney. Just my two cents. While I am at it, I really hate those labels on matresses and pillows, the ones that say do not remove.

Don't we all. Don't we all.
 

KDLadage:

In it's own way your rebuttal is as flawed as Monte's original rant.

From the very start you commit a grave error that mortally flaws most of the rest of your points - you ignore the title. Monte did not call it, "The Anti Corporation Well Thought Out, Objective, Researched and Technically and Politically Correct Essay." He called it, "The Anti corporation Rant". A rant is not merely a statement of opinion, which one might expect to be based upon thought and facts. A rant is an expression of emotion. A wild and uncontrolled expression of emotion. Yet, you treat it as if it were intended to be published in a business newspaper, holding it to high standards of technical accuracy.

It is as if you were in biology class, did a dissection, and reported that the creature on your tray was a highly deformed cat when it was, in fact, a frog. In analysis of a thing (be it a frog or an essay) we must keep in mind what the thing actually is.

Now, for a few scattered other points...

Mr. Cook does not, in fact, assume the audience believes as he does. He says it "shouldn't surprise any of you too much". That doesn't imply agreement, merely an understanding of the origins of the rant - the man used to work at WotC, and has watched a whole bunch of his former coworkers (and presumably, many friends) get laid off. For the folks who read his website, the existance of this rant really should be no surprise.

As to the number 500 - hyperbole is a well-accepted tool in prose writing. While it would be inappropriate in a technical piece, it fits into a rant nicely. And, btw, I don't know where to look, but is it possible that the Hasbro bigwigs do in fact earn 500 times what many of their employees earn?

The fact that a company can produce many cars in a year does not prove that it is actually efficient. It merely proves that they are not so inefficient as to kill themselves. Just as a single human workman can be inefficient, but still good eough to earn a day's pay, or a human may survive for a long time with clogged arteries, a corporation can have inefficiencies and still manage. The fact is that corporate structure does have some inherent inefficiencies - like the communications problems Monte explains. Saying that they manage to succeed despite them does not mean that they do no harm, or that we should ignore them.

On the handling of creative properties, again, you completely miss the use of hyperbole that I expect every other reader caught. I severely doubt that readers actually believed that Monte felt that literally every employee of a corporation, down to the mail room and janitorial staff, wanted input on creative processes. We know darned well what he meant, because we take it in context.

And that brings me back to the start of my rebuttal to your rebuttal. Analysis of writing must be done in context. You should not apply nigh-journalistic standards to a clearly labelled rant.
 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: My problem with Monte Cook...

hammymchamham said:


So as I read this AP report about an airplane crashing, I'll remember that its just the authors opinion that the airplane crashed, not a fact. That it was the authors opinion that 24 people died. Thanks for reminding me that "There's an implied tag to everything *anybody* says..."
Yep, that's correct.

The author is saying "according to the evidence I have, it is my belief that the airplane crashed, and that, as a result of the crash, 24 people died."

But it's shorter, if you're reasonably certain you'll be understood, to just say "airplane crashed, 24 people died."

It's all about epistemology.

For instance, if I say, "the real world exists," I am implicitly saying "according to my experiences, I believe that the real world exists (whatever that means)."

This seems fairly obvious to me, but I guess not everyone thinks that way. My apologies if I was unclear.

In any case, that's totally beside the point of what I originally said, so if you don't care to respond to my actual point, I'm not going to take this discussion further. The original message in the thread had nothing to do with epistemology.
 

ATTN KDLadage

derverdammte said:

Good point. Total Equivalent Compensation (TEC), as the admin people where I work call it, is much more important and significant than salary alone. You have to include benefits and perks in your calculation of someone's level of compensation; otherwise you get an unbalanced picture. That includes use of the corporate car, expense accounts, and pretty much everything else.

Clayton Jones sold $100,000 of stock since April 2002 alone

http://biz.yahoo.com/t/c/col.html

I'm sure his total stock options are worth WELL into the Millions of Dollars

Since your other example of Seedorff Masonry, Inc ( you spelled it wrong BTW ) is a private company, lets skip that one and choose another high profile comany for Iowa - Quaker Oats

GILLILAND, MICHAEL C. CEO

has sold over THREE MILLION dollars worth of stock in the past year !

http://biz.yahoo.com/t/o/oats.html

research - heh. You can usually find numbers to support your position. ANY position.
 

What Monte left out

Corporations are the best vehicle to gather capital and expand a business. In fact, without corporations, Monte would not be publishing D&D related material today.

Shortly after D&D was originally developed, the entity used to publish and distribute D&D went and INCORPORATED! Because of this wise use of a business model, TSR was able to expand its business and begin a new hobby that is played internationally.

Now the next objection will be "But later a poorly managed TSR was going bankrupt and D&D could have died."

True, but it was another corporation that saved D&D and even improved it. D&D is revitalized because of the efforts of a corporation.

Monte got laid off (as an employee laid off from a Fortune 500 company I can emapthaize) however corporations are what made the U.S. the leader it is in the world economy and given us the option of playing this game we love. No single person would have the resources to develop D&D into what it is today.

Corporations may be inefficient, but they allow for the opportunity of more growth than privately owned business thereby benefitting more people (consumers and shareholders alike).
 

Re: ATTN KDLadage

BigFreekinGoblinoid said:
GILLILAND, MICHAEL C. CEO

has sold over THREE MILLION dollars worth of stock in the past year !

http://biz.yahoo.com/t/o/oats.html

research - heh. You can usually find numbers to support your position. ANY position.

So this 500 times forumla that has been kicked around equals to roughly 6000 for your average joe working at Quaker Oats. I wonder how much the benifits cost Quaker Oats for their average joe... perhaps around (and probabbly more) than 6000 a year.

And how long had Michael been sitting with the stocks he sold?
 

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