My ranger Poll results: See last post. (was beating the Ranger with a better stick)

[mmu1]

Re: Help me beat the Ranger's dead horse with a better stick!

4-1)The ranger needs to be able to track from first level onwards, hence needs it as a bonus feat.
4-2)The Ranger should have a +1 BAB/Level
2-3)The ranger, being a rugged outdoorsman needs at least a d10 hit die.
3-4)The ranger needs extra feats that help him in combat, such as Point blank shot or Two Weapon Fighting
3-5)Provided the ranger needs the feats discussed in 4, he needs them in the first 3 levels
1-6)The ranger needs to be able to cast some divine spells (disregard the spell Animal friendship for this question)
4-7)The ranger needs 6 skill points per level to fulfill his role
2-8)The ranger needs a good reflex save
3-9)The ranger needs to be able to acquire an animal companion
4-10)The ranger must not have multiclass restrictions
3-11)The ranger needs to be a core class, as opposed to being a prestige class
4-12)The ranger needs to either be forced or encouraged to wear light armour

I think this poll is missing some pretty important questions, though, like those on alternative special abilities to replace spellcasting, giving the ranger a progression of bonus feats instead of several front-loaded feats, whether people feel Favored Enemy is a vital part of the Ranger (as opposed to, say, favored terrain), or whether it makes sense for a Ranger to move more slowly in the woods than a Monk or a Barbarian...

 

[bunnyhat]

4- 1)The ranger needs to be able to track from first level onwards, hence needs it as a bonus feat.
5- 2)The Ranger should have a +1 BAB/Level
4- 3)The ranger, being a rugged outdoorsman needs at least a d10 hitdie.
5- 4)The ranger needs extra feats that help him in combat, such as Point blank shot or Two Weapon Fighting
1- 5)Provided the ranger needs the feats discussed in 4, he needs them in the first 3 levels
4- 6)The ranger needs to be able to cast some divine spells (disregard the spell Animal friendship for this question)
5- 7)The ranger needs 6 skill points per level to fulfill his role
2- 8)The ranger needs a good reflex save
5- 9)The ranger needs to be able to acquire an animal companion
4- 10)The ranger must not have multiclass restrictions
1- 11)The ranger needs to be a core class, as opposed to being a prestige class
3- 12)The ranger needs to either be forced or encouraged to wear light armour

 

[JRRNeiklot]

All the ranger needs is to lose the twf crap and gain spontaneous casting like a sorceror, but keeping the ranger spell list.

 

[Dr. NRG]

Erm, yes, Piratecat. I'll go edit... <blushes>.

NRG

 

[Winterthorn]

I'll try...

5 - 1)The ranger needs to be able to track from first level onwards, hence needs it as a bonus feat.
3 - 2)The Ranger should have a +1 BAB/Level
2 - 3)The ranger, being a rugged outdoorsman needs at least a d10 hitdie.
5 - 4)The ranger needs extra feats that help him in combat, such as Point blank shot or Two Weapon Fighting
4 - 5)Provided the ranger needs the feats discussed in 4, he needs them in the first 3 levels
1 - 6)The ranger needs to be able to cast some divine spells (disregard the spell Animal friendship for this question)
3 - 7)The ranger needs 6 skill points per level to fulfill his role
5 - 8)The ranger needs a good reflex save
1 - 9)The ranger needs to be able to acquire an animal companion
2 - 10)The ranger must not have multiclass restrictions
5 - 11)The ranger needs to be a core class, as opposed to being a prestige class
4 - 12)The ranger needs to either be forced or encouraged to wear light armour

And 2 comments:

i) I always thought the concept of a ranger casting spells a bit odd--I don't recall Aragorn (of LotR fame) ever casting anything, and isn't his character the initial inspiration for the ranger (long, long before that Drizzt fellow )? So... taking a moment to "think outside the box", perhaps a non-spellcasting ranger concept, albeit a little radical from what we've expected of rangers over the last 20+ years of D&D, may just be the "trick" to "rebuild" this class into something ppl will really like? Can we overcome the spellcasting assumption? *shrug*

ii) I'd leave the animal companion as an option, perhaps by culture/race, rather than something automatically gained... Can we turn the animal companion into a class feat? Just a thought...

It'll be interesting to see what the statistics from this thread reveal about our expectations for the ranger!

-W.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Re: Help me beat the Ranger's dead horse with a better stick!

Going off of the 1 is least and 5 is most essential

5-1)The ranger needs to be able to track from first level onwards, hence needs it as a bonus feat.
3-2)The Ranger should have a +1 BAB/Level
3-3)The ranger, being a rugged outdoorsman needs at least a d10 hitdie.
4-4)The ranger needs extra feats that help him in combat, such as Point blank shot or Two Weapon Fighting
1-5)Provided the ranger needs the feats discussed in 4, he needs them in the first 3 levels
4-6)The ranger needs to be able to cast some divine spells (disregard the spell Animal friendship for this question)
5-7)The ranger needs 6 skill points per level to fulfill his role
3-8)The ranger needs a good reflex save
5-9)The ranger needs to be able to acquire an animal companion
5-10)The ranger must not have multiclass restrictions
5-11)The ranger needs to be a core class, as opposed to being a prestige class
2-12)The ranger needs to either be forced or encouraged to wear light armour

 

[hunter2112]

1. 5
2. 4
3. 2
4. 5
5. 3
6. 1
7. 4
8. 4
9. 3
10. 4
11. 5
12. 4


Just my two cents of course.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Re: Help me beat the Ranger's dead horse with a better stick!

1)The ranger needs to be able to track from first level onwards, hence needs it as a bonus feat.
2)The Ranger should have a +1 BAB/Level
3)The ranger, being a rugged outdoorsman needs at least a d10 hitdie.
4)The ranger needs extra feats that help him in combat, such as Point blank shot or Two Weapon Fighting
5)Provided the ranger needs the feats discussed in 4, he needs them in the first 3 levels
6)The ranger needs to be able to cast some divine spells (disregard the spell Animal friendship for this question)
7)The ranger needs 6 skill points per level to fulfill his role
8)The ranger needs a good reflex save
9)The ranger needs to be able to acquire an animal companion
10)The ranger must not have multiclass restrictions
11)The ranger needs to be a core class, as opposed to being a prestige class
12)The ranger needs to either be forced or encouraged to wear light armour

1) 5. This is an absolutely essential part of Wildnerness style Rangers, which are the assumption of the core class.
2) 2. They'd be fine with Cleric/Rogue progression. They can multiclass with Fighter is they want to be a deadly Aragorn/Drizzt style Ranger-- which is what everyone does anyway.
3) 2. Better with a d8. The Ranger's combat prowess lies in not getting hit.
4) 4. Specifically-themed Ranger bonus feats make sense, though it should be a bonus feat list that includes skill and nature-based bonuses, as well.
5) 3. He'd be okay with a slower bonus feat progression.
6) 1-2. If he wants to fight better, he can multi-class with Fighter. If he wants to cast spells, he can multiclass with Druid.
7) 5. Ranger is a very skill-heavy class.
8) 3. Eh. It'd be nice, but not essential. If D&D were to use Medium saves, this would be the place to do it.
9) 4. Makes sense.
10) 5. No class should have multiclass restrictions. It violates the entire concept of the D&D multiclassing system.
11) 5. Too important an archetype to bump up to prestige.
12) 5. There's a reason people don't go camping in plate mail.

 

[Creamsteak]

Re: Help me beat the Ranger's dead horse with a better stick!

1)The ranger needs to be able to track from first level onwards, hence needs it as a bonus feat.

5

2)The Ranger should have a +1 BAB/Level

3 (either Fighter or Cleric)

3)The ranger, being a rugged outdoorsman needs at least a d10 hitdie.

3 (either Fighter or Cleric)

4)The ranger needs extra feats that help him in combat, such as Point blank shot or Two Weapon Fighting

5 (Yes, most definitely, but a limited number. Less than a Fighter. Maybe two chains (archery/two-weapon fighting), some spellcasting bonus feats, and such. At wizard rates)

5 )Provided the ranger needs the feats discussed in 4, he needs them in the first 3 levels

3 (A feat at first or second level is fine, and one ever 3-5 levels is appropriate if your making this class combat oriented.)

6)The ranger needs to be able to cast some divine spells (disregard the spell Animal friendship for this question)

5 (I'd prefer more magic, like first-6th level spells.)

7)The ranger needs 6 skill points per level to fulfill his role

3 (Nah, it's not actually required.)

8)The ranger needs a good reflex save

3 (Needs? Nah, maybe they should have it, but I don't really have an opinion. I don't like Monte giving them 2 good saves, but either or is my opinion)

9)The ranger needs to be able to acquire an animal companion

3 (Needs? Hrm... I personally don't want an animal companion unless I'm safe, which then isn't really such a companion)

10)The ranger must not have multiclass restrictions

3 (Give him one or two if it's appropriate. It doesn't bother me.)

11)The ranger needs to be a core class, as opposed to being a prestige class

3 (Whatever fits the character better, that's what matters here.)

12)The ranger needs to either be forced or encouraged to wear light armour

3 (Encouraged, by the Dex skills and high dex reqs for good archery/two-weapon-fighting feats, but not forced. Ever.)

 

[mmadsen]

Re: Help me beat the Ranger's dead horse with a better stick!

5 - 1)The ranger needs to be able to track from first level onwards, hence needs it as a bonus feat.
3 - 2)The Ranger should have a +1 BAB/Level
2 - 3)The ranger, being a rugged outdoorsman needs at least a d10 hitdie.
2 - 4)The ranger needs extra feats that help him in combat, such as Point blank shot or Two Weapon Fighting
1 - 5)Provided the ranger needs the feats discussed in 4, he needs them in the first 3 levels
1 - 6)The ranger needs to be able to cast some divine spells (disregard the spell Animal friendship for this question)
4 - 7)The ranger needs 6 skill points per level to fulfill his role
3 - 8)The ranger needs a good reflex save
4 - 9)The ranger needs to be able to acquire an animal companion
5 - 10)The ranger must not have multiclass restrictions
2 - 11)The ranger needs to be a core class, as opposed to being a prestige class
4 - 12)The ranger needs to either be forced or encouraged to wear light armour