My Thoughts on DnD, and the next Edition (Long, rambly)

[Merlion]

Removing classes from D&D wouldnt make it GURPS no. But its one of the few things that, in my mind, would make it something other than Dungeons and Dragons.

 

[Staffan]

A more common argument against armor-as-DR is that the math doesn't work out well in play. A knife becomes useless against a chain shirt or breastplate.

If you translate armor bonus directly to DR, sure. That's not necessarily the idea.

I think Stormbringer (same basic system as Call of Cthulhu or RuneQuest) had armor absorbing a random amount of damage - really big and heavy armor might absorb 1d10+2 or something like that (I've only played it once, and it was long ago). A low absorption roll in a system like that would then indicate that a weakly armored location was hit.

 

[Merlion]

The system presented in Unearthed Arcana (and the one I think is likely to be integrated into the next edition) gives each type of armor DR equal to half the original armor bonus, rounded I believe up, because chainmail gives 3 DR.

 

[Incenjucar]

I would push for the next version of DnD to incorporate "pi" and "infinity" (couldn't find the infinity symbol) in some way.

So... Moignos* and Planescape?

*Moignos being that 2D Mechanus race that exists to find pi. Orc not included.

 

[Belen]

The system presented in Unearthed Arcana (and the one I think is likely to be integrated into the next edition) gives each type of armor DR equal to half the original armor bonus, rounded I believe up, because chainmail gives 3 DR.

Matters not. It is still a clunky mechanic that slows down combat. The whole purpose behind 3e was to streamline things. DR makes it so that someone has to stop and subtract whatever damage a GM deals out with every single hit.

That does not even count whether magical bonus increase the DR? Do they?

I really do not think UA was a book that heralded changes to the game. Instead, it was a way that WOTC could make a buck off of their employee homebrews and take some of the OGL from the third party crowd without having to do too much work.

It's a cool book, but if a lot of those changes went into effect, then what is D&D was not be what people consider D&D.

 

[Merlion]

Matters not. It is still a clunky mechanic that slows down combat

No...it doesnt. I know, I've used it. It doesnt slow anything down in the slightest.

DR makes it so that someone has to stop and subtract whatever damage a GM deals out with every single hit.

You mean kind of like creature DR? like having to stop and remember to add +1 to all attack rolls when under the effect of Bless?

Unless the armor-wearers change back and forth bewteen types of armor between each combat, this shouldnt be much of an issue for anybody. I mean its very simple

DM: You take 5 damage from the displacer beasts tentacle

Player (Who has it down on his character sheet that his wearing chainmail, so he has 3 points of DR): subtracts 2 from his current hit points.

Yea..that really slowed things down.

That does not even count whether magical bonus increase the DR? Do they?

In the UA system as written, they do not.

I really do not think UA was a book that heralded changes to the game

Your entitled to your opnion, but theres a good many reasons to believe it is. Just as Skills and Powers heralded many of the changes in 3e.

The simply fact that they made it Open Game Content is a good one.

It's a cool book, but if a lot of those changes went into effect, then what is D&D was not be what people consider D&D

Your being a bit meladramatic here. Making it so armor adds DR instead of adding to AC isnt going to make DND not be DND. Even less so would adding a bonus to AC based on class and level.

Many people said the same thing about various things in 3rd edition, such as removing class/race restrictions, allowing Druids to be alignments other than True Neutral, or making it so it is possible for a Wizard to wear armor and cast spells at the same time.

But, those changes were made, and its still DND.

Now, totally removing Armor Class from the game would be slaughtering a sacred cow. But nobody is talking about that.

The stuff in UA (at least the stuff I foresee maybe being part of the next edition) are all pretty mild changes. No slaughterings of any sacred cows.

And, as I stated a few posts ago, there *will* be a new edition, and they *will* change things. However the list of things that have any need of change, and that can in fact be changed without causing it to no longer be D&D does get shorter as the editions go on. But, they will be changing things...and things like this seem rather likely.

 

[mmadsen]

Hit and do damage, folks. Hit and do damage.

Thats what the attack roll is a check for. Its not that the full plate makes it harder for the attacker to connect with his opponent with his weapon. It makes it harder for that strike to actually do damage.

Hence why the touch attack does not factor armour - because the armour doesn't stop someone from being able to touch you, but it does stop the touch from hurtin.

We're all aware of that, El Ravager, but if you're going to use a single roll for hit and do damage, you should use a single roll for hit and do damage -- not one roll for hit and do damage, followed by another roll for damage. Or get all crazy and have one roll for hit and one for damage.

Under the current system, a giant gets a massive bonus to hit because of his great strength -- which makes some sense if hit means hit and do damage. But using a bigger, badder weapon that does more damage doesn't improve your chance to hit (pardon hit and do damage). Heck, using a light saber or .50-caliber machine gun doesn't improve your chance to hit -- even though those weapons should ignore most (but not all) armor.

On the flip side, no armor-piercing bonus should help you hit the unarmored, swashbuckling rogue.

 

[mmadsen]

+1 does mean as much as it does at 20th level as it does at 1st. It means a 5% increase in your chance to hit. This is one of the nifty side-effects of a linear dice dsitribution; you never get to a point in the curve where modifiers don't matter.

Well, this gets into a bit of a semantic issue. After all, a "5% increase" from 90% to 95% means that you hit 6% more often (1.06 times as often); a "5% increase" from 5% to 10% means that you hit 100% more often (2.00 times as often).

 

[Belen]

And, as I stated a few posts ago, there *will* be a new edition, and they *will* change things. However the list of things that have any need of change, and that can in fact be changed without causing it to no longer be D&D does get shorter as the editions go on. But, they will be changing things...and things like this seem rather likely.

And I do not doubt that a new edition will arrive. However, I am willing to bet that the new edition does not appear from another 3-4 years. Why? Because they would be shooting themselves in the foot by bringing out a new edition so close to the release of Eberron and DnDonline. Any major changes would tank Eberron before it got started.

Armor as DR seems to be your pet change. I will say that it is highly unlikely that change will go into effect. It's nice for an alternate mechanic so that some gamists can have a new tool, but the majority of people are just fine with the current Armor as AC.

And you're still ignoring that someone weilding a dagger against DR 8 just cannot damage the person. The same goes for several other light weapons. So you basically want just the heavy fighter types to be viable options.

Armor as DR really is far more trouble than it is worth.

 

[mmadsen]

3) No blank levels. Every class gets a new ability, feat, or something at every level. They shouldn't all affect combat, but each class should get a goodie at every level.

When I first read the Fighter's class description, I thought, Cool! These guys get a feat of their choice every level, instead of specific special abilities. Then I realized it was every other level.

I think that just about every class could be designed with a list of bonus feats.

4) Fighters get paths, which give them predetermined abilities at each level where they don't get Fighter Feats. Cavalry starts off with Mounted Combat, Command starts off with bonus to CHA, eventually leading to Leadership, while Cavalry gets horsemanship feats. Marines get shipboard fighting feats, etc.

The abilities belonging to those "paths" could just be different feat trees. The "paths" themselves could be subclasses with different bonus feat lists and skill lists.