D&D 5E Mystic, Psionic Mastery, and 11th level and up

[Barolo]

To work the way it was proposed on tweet, I think the real benefit would be of multiple concentrations. If it is so, to simplify its implementation, it would be easier to just incorporate those special points to the power point progression and then rewrite psionic mastery to allow, starting at 11th level, once per day, concentration in up to 9 points worth of powers at once, increasing this use to 2x at level 13, 3x at level 15 and 4x at level 17, and increasing the limit to 11 points at level 15.

If nova damage was really relevant, why most powers have a hard 7 point limit, when the class as a whole already has this same limit, and some random powers work as exceptions? This creates really wonky interactions, as some disciplines simply have "higher power" effects while other similar effects don't.

 

[raleel]

I don't see anything that indicates that it allows you to break your psi limit. So dumping all 11 points in one shot appears to not be an option. The phrasing is there to make it clear (heh) that it is not tied to one discipline.

 

[Fanaelialae]

I don't see anything that indicates that it allows you to break your psi limit. So dumping all 11 points in one shot appears to not be an option. The phrasing is there to make it clear (heh) that it is not tied to one discipline.

Take a look at Psionic Mastery: "You can use all 9 points on one discipline...". In other words, it allows you to break the limit, since 7 is the normal maximum limit.

 

[raleel]

Take a look at Psionic Mastery: "You can use all 9 points on one discipline...". In other words, it allows you to break the limit, since 7 is the normal maximum limit.

Right, this is why the heh in there. To me that says "they are not tied to the discipline" not "you can break the psi limit for powers". I can completely see why one might think the other way. Note, the terminology here - discipline - and not effect.

Sounds like an excellent sage advice question

Edit: and asked

 

[Fanaelialae]

Right, this is why the heh in there. To me that says "they are not tied to the discipline" not "you can break the psi limit for powers". I can completely see why one might think the other way. Note, the terminology here - discipline - and not effect.

Sounds like an excellent sage advice question

Edit: and asked

Looking forward to the answer.

Note that nowhere in the document (that I can find) does it refer to a discipline power or anything like that. It just refers to disciplines. It talks about activating a discipline in psionic mastery, but that would be nonsensical if it were merely referring to the categorical disciplines (ie, Corrosive Metabolism) rather than the powers that compose that discipline. The term is used for both the category and the powers it contains.

 

[Curmudjinn]

Allowing a mystic to, instead of having higher level "spells", being able to maintain more than one concentration at once, is pretty potent no?



Did you read the tweet? It would indicate that you are incorrect...

Does the tweet actually matter? This isn't competitive gaming we're discussing. It's a draft of a class that doesn't officially exist in the rules. You and your DM should discuss what is best for the class, not some truly meaningless tweet.

 

[Curmudjinn]

Take a look at Psionic Mastery: "You can use all 9 points on one discipline...". In other words, it allows you to break the limit, since 7 is the normal maximum limit.

That's not the full quote. You have to quote the entire sentence or it's easy to read out of context.
It doesn't say all at once either, which you are implying for some reason. It says you can use those 9 points on just one discipline or multiple disciplines, but it never mentions using all 9 points in one use on one power. You are implying something it doesn't state. You do not have to spend them immediately either, as referenced by losing any unspent special points upon a long rest.

 

[ThePolarBear]

What about the fact that there are certain powers (like Corrosive Metabolism's Breath of the Black Dragon, but there are numerous others) that don't have a point limit and therefore you can dump however many points you can generate in one go into those powers?

There's no text in Psionic Mastery that allows you to ignore the Psi Limit. Or, for the matter, that allows you to go over the maximum amount of Psi Points allowed at a certain level. Or no clear indication if the "special psi point" can *not stack with themselves.

It is possible that these issues have been addressed in a tweet (not really parsing twitter all day) but the only "special" thing about these points, as written, is the ability to use them to stack concentration effects. Everything else is something that is in a grey "is not stated as not such" area that, following the rules of "specific versus general" should not be taken for granted.

Another edit: Around a thousands post appeared after i posted and i have no idea why those weren't there when i first read the thread. Gonna look at those posts and eventually edit up this /delete it if no longer useful.

Edit 3: [MENTION=53980]Fanaelialae[/MENTION] When you activate a discipline you activate the collection of powers - discipllines are actually mental trainings. In the description of what disciplines are disciplines are described as trainings, and in "Using a discipline" you can find that the Discipline can be activated for a various effects. The Discipline is always the collection of effects, and activating a discipline allows you to choose an option. You do not activate "Bestial Claws", you activate "Bestial Form" to obtain the effect of "Bestial Claws".

 

[Fanaelialae]

That's not the full quote. You have to quote the entire sentence or it's easy to read out of context.
It doesn't say all at once either, which you are implying for some reason. It says you can use those 9 points on just one discipline or multiple disciplines, but it never mentions using all 9 points in one use on one power. You are implying something it doesn't state. You do not have to spend them immediately either, as referenced by losing any unspent special points upon a long rest.

I included the ... to indicate that it's not the full quote. Why would the points be limited to a single (categorical) discipline? Nothing else requires you to spend all of your points on a single (categorical) discipline. If your reading is correct, then that sentence diminishes the clarity of the rules. It would be as if I gave you a recipe for turkey sandwiches where step five says "Don't smear motor oil on the sandwich". Why in the name of all that is good would you ever think to do that without being prompted?

It says that you can spend all 9 on one discipline (which refers to the discipline powers by my reading, due to the fact that activating a discipline would nonsensical because a discipline is a category of related powers). That means you can exceed the normal limit IMO.

[MENTION=21664]raleel[/MENTION] has requested clarification on the matter, so hopefully we'll have an official answer soon.

 

[zaratan]

One of the strongest uses I can think of is to summon shadows using Mastery of Light and Darkness. Imagine you are on the other side of the door that leads to the BBEG (or just a tough fight) and you know this due to having used other abilities. You can summon up 6 shadows and send them under the door (Amorphous). Shadows don't have great accuracy, but with 6 attacks you'll probably land a few shots before they die, especially if they manage to surprise their target (they're fairly good at stealth), and that's -2.5 Str to the BBEG per hit. It's the perfect way to soften up a heavy hitter before the fight (less relevant against magic users unless you manage to zero out their Strength and outright kill them). A DM could declare that there is no 1 inch gap to squeeze through under the door, but it's unlikely that the DM will be able to put their BBEG in a hermetically sealed room every single time you encounter one. Frankly, this power probably needs to be looked at. There are plenty of otherwise hard fights that this could trivialize starting at 11th level...

EDIT:
If you do need nova DPR, the Psychic Assault discipline's Psychic Blast is the way to go. A 60 foot cone that, when using all 11 pts from psionic mastery deals 18d8. That's not quite on par with Meteor Swarm, but it blows a 9th level fireball out of the water.

ANOTHER EDIT:
Psychic Phantoms' Phantom Foe is a good choice for sustained single target DPR. With all 11 pts, it deals 9d8 damage per round for up to a minute (admittedly, it's a gamble, since if the target makes their save they take nothing).

The shadows have 19 hp, +4 to hit and need to take initiative, we talking about of a BBEG for lvl 15+ players, there is a solid chance to they die before get one hit. Great if BBEG have AoE. Even with two hits, is a lvl 8 spell to -5 BBEG str? Normally if the this BBEG is a Str dependent, he'll have a AC of 20+, if not, they only caution is kill the shadows before reach 0 str.
There isn't any thing saying that you can surpass the 7 psi limit too.

Topic:
The two options I see is:

-use just one action to activate all 9 (or 11) at once. This isn't so powerful as a good lvl 6+ spell, but is really versatile and fun to think in how you can mix effects.
-bring high level discipline effects instead.