D&D 5E Mystic, Psionic Mastery, and 11th level and up

[Fanaelialae]

The shadows have 19 hp, +4 to hit and need to take initiative, we talking about of a BBEG for lvl 15+ players, there is a solid chance to they die before get one hit. Great if BBEG have AoE. Even with two hits, is a lvl 8 spell to -5 BBEG str? Normally if the this BBEG is a Str dependent, he'll have a AC of 20+, if not, they only caution is kill the shadows before reach 0 str.

Actually, we are talking about a BBEG for level 11+ players. And I was assuming a 20 AC (that's a 25% hit rate for the shadows which, for 6 shadows, equates to 3.75 Strength drain per round).

Also (afb) don't shadows resist non magical weapons? Not all boss monsters have magical attacks, and if they don't 19 hp with resistance will probably soak two shots from the boss.

If the shadows get surprise and win initiative, they could easily do around 8 Strength damage before the BBEG can even act. If the bad guy doesn't have AOE (say he gets 3 attacks per round) then they can deal an additional 1.875 Strength drain for almost 10 points less Strength. -5 to all of a boss monster's attacks and damage? Yes please!

Now certainly, it won't always work out in such a solid fashion. Maybe the dragon spots them and roasts them in the opening round. Now you can rush the room and not worry about the breath weapon.

It's not unbeatable, but it's certainly solid, and I would expect it to trivialize fights now and again. The boss HAS to get the shadows down or else they will destroy him (unless he can stay out of their reach or has an AC that very few monsters possess). That means the party has at least a round to get into position without worrying about the boss. Easily worth a high level spell slot (otherwise you're probably wasting a slot on using up a legendary resistance use).

 

[zaratan]

Actually, we are talking about a BBEG for level 11+ players. And I was assuming a 20 AC (that's a 25% hit rate for the shadows which, for 6 shadows, equates to 3.75 Strength drain per round).

Also (afb) don't shadows resist non magical weapons? Not all boss monsters have magical attacks, and if they don't 19 hp with resistance will probably soak two shots from the boss.

If the shadows get surprise and win initiative, they could easily do around 8 Strength damage before the BBEG can even act. If the bad guy doesn't have AOE (say he gets 3 attacks per round) then they can deal an additional 1.875 Strength drain for almost 10 points less Strength. -5 to all of a boss monster's attacks and damage? Yes please!

Now certainly, it won't always work out in such a solid fashion. Maybe the dragon spots them and roasts them in the opening round. Now you can rush the room and not worry about the breath weapon.

It's not unbeatable, but it's certainly solid, and I would expect it to trivialize fights now and again. The boss HAS to get the shadows down or else they will destroy him (unless he can stay out of their reach or has an AC that very few monsters possess). That means the party has at least a round to get into position without worrying about the boss. Easily worth a high level spell slot (otherwise you're probably wasting a slot on using up a legendary resistance use).

In fact the shadows have 16hp. A BBEG for 4 lvl 11+ is a CR 13+, there just few monsters in MM of CR13+ that doesn't have magic attacks OR AoE attacks, and many BBEG have legendary action to act between the shadows. And many monsters at that level can easily avoid shadows attacks (like fly).

Surprise round agaist BBEG is a really rare situation, at least in my table. With just +4 in stealth will be even harder.
And how psionic mastery work now, would cost 4 actions to set this, and they last for 1 minute (in fact, the first two you conjure will last for 48s when you bring the last two), basicaly worthless if you can't set all shadows before combat start.

So, yeah, in the perfect situation looks amazing, in many situations (against minios, not BBEG) is a solid option, in some moments is useless.

Solid yes, but wouldn't say "trivialize fights" even if using just one action. Conjure animals at level 7th could bring 24 constrictor snake with one action, restraining all enemies. Mass suggestion can dismiss all enemies. But you can't use all that the entire day.

 

[Fanaelialae]

In fact the shadows have 16hp. A BBEG for 4 lvl 11+ is a CR 13+, there just few monsters in MM of CR13+ that doesn't have magic attacks OR AoE attacks, and many BBEG have legendary action to act between the shadows. And many monsters at that level can easily avoid shadows attacks (like fly).

Surprise round agaist BBEG is a really rare situation, at least in my table. With just +4 in stealth will be even harder.
And how psionic mastery work now, would cost 4 actions to set this, and they last for 1 minute (in fact, the first two you conjure will last for 48s when you bring the last two), basicaly worthless if you can't set all shadows before combat start.

So, yeah, in the perfect situation looks amazing, in many situations (against minios, not BBEG) is a solid option, in some moments is useless.

Solid yes, but wouldn't say "trivialize fights" even if using just one action. Conjure animals at level 7th could bring 24 constrictor snake with one action, restraining all enemies. Mass suggestion can dismiss all enemies. But you can't use all that the entire day.

You were the one who said shadows have 19 hp and I was afb.

Fairly certain that shadows get a +6 to stealth when in shadows, so unless the monster gas floodlights in it's home, odds are a decent. Many monsters don't have great perception.

Conjure animals could bring in 24 constrictor snakes, or not. It only allows the player to choose a CR, not the type of animal summoned. The DM has full control (in my case, I created a randomized table in order to remain impartial). The mystic ability always summons shadows.

The shadows can soften up targets before the Pc's are in any danger, in a way that the snakes never could.

Now keep in mind that I never said it was broken. Just that it's potent and an eye ought to be kept on it.

 

[zaratan]

You were the one who said shadows have 19 hp and I was afb.

Fairly certain that shadows get a +6 to stealth when in shadows, so unless the monster gas floodlights in it's home, odds are a decent. Many monsters don't have great perception.

Conjure animals could bring in 24 constrictor snakes, or not. It only allows the player to choose a CR, not the type of animal summoned. The DM has full control (in my case, I created a randomized table in order to remain impartial). The mystic ability always summons shadows.

The shadows can soften up targets before the Pc's are in any danger, in a way that the snakes never could.

Now keep in mind that I never said it was broken. Just that it's potent and an eye ought to be kept on it.

+6 is better than +4, but we talking about 6 shadows, if just one fail, enemy isn't surprised. Hard chance to surprise work in that case, unless someone help shadows with pass without the trace.

Yes, is a good option in the right conditions (I think is better agaist minios than BBEG at that level), but I don't see this as "trivialing fights", and when you reach lvl 15+, the effectiveness decrease while you can do that more times a day. And again, by how psionic mastery work today, you need 4 actions to set that.

there is 41 disicplines, each one with 4avg effects, and is hard to think in 10 good combo options that look close to a lvl 6+ spell. Would be easier if we need just one action to activate all disciplines, because with at least 3 actions/bonus actions to use the pool, is almost useless if you need to use the pool inside a combat.

 

[neogod22]

For those of you confused, the amount of psi points you get each level and your psi points to limit are directly proportional to the spell casting chart. Your psionic mastery is supposed to be your "high level spells." This is why the points are separate from normal points, to ensure you can only use it the proper amount of times just like spell casters and their 6+ level spells. Because when you look at how a the 2 systems work, a spell caster is limited by their spell slots, and a Mystic can choose how they use their normal powers, whether it's 71 one point abilities, 35 lvl 1 equivalent abilities, 10 lvl 5 equivalent abilites, or anything in between. There's a lot of flexibility in psionic that you don't get as a caster.

So think of it like this, if PM gives you 9sp at level 11, 9 points equals a 6th level spells slot, and if you get 11 at 15, then 11 points equals an 8th level spell slot. So at 17, you have 4 8th level slots, no lower, no higher.

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[Xeviat]

So think of it like this, if PM gives you 9sp at level 11, 9 points equals a 6th level spells slot, and if you get 11 at 15, then 11 points equals an 8th level spell slot. So at 17, you have 4 8th level slots, no lower, no higher.

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This would be true if they could use multiple actions with the single action for this ability. Otherwise, aside from extra points, which are valuable, they don't get anything big other than being able to hold multiple concentrations.


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[neogod22]

It says you can use all the points when you activate it, why do people read too much into this?

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[zaratan]

It says you can use all the points when you activate it, why do people read too much into this?

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How JC said, it say you can reaxh the pool with the action, this doesn't activate anything.
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