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Mystic Warriors

Psion

Adventurer
Mystic Warriors

The third edition D&D game (and ergo D20 system) brought with it many refinements and a few new features. One of these is the prestige class mechanic. This provided a method to introduce new character options into the game under the scrutiny of the GM.

This creates possibilities for the format of new products. A great many D&D and D20 system products have featured prestige classes as at least part of the material to help shape setting material or other special character concepts associated with the product. However, to date few products have made prestige classes their major focus.

Mystic Warriors is among the first such products. The book details a number of distinct warrior traditions that share the use of a force that the book call vitus. The various classes use vitus to use some of their class abilities as well as a number of special abilities that the book calls techniques. The book is written with Mystic Eye Games' The Hunt: Rise of Evil campaign setting in mind, but claims that the classes with in can be used in other settings.

A First Look

Mystic Warriors is a perfect bound soft-cover book with 128 pages. The book sells for $14.95 US. This gives Mystic Warriors a price per page that is very low for a book of this price and size. Compare this with books with more typical pricing. Most $14.95 D20 system books have about half as many pages, and most books with 128 pages are priced in the $20+ range.

Looking inside, the font used in the book is rather small, and the line spacing is rather close, giving a fairly high text density. However, there are some practices that detract from the delivered value somewhat. For example, the tables detailing class features have cell padding that is rather excessive, and there are two tables that are repeated many times throughout the text.

The cover graphics are fairly good. The book has a grey stylized backdrop, and the color picture on the front cover is a decent depiction of three of the classes in the book in an arboreal setting.

The interior artwork leaves something to be desired. The illustrations appear somewhat unprofessional, with a sketchy appearance and depicting characters with disproportionate body features and unrealistic looking faces.

A Deeper Look

The presented mystic warrior traditions form the bulk of the material of Mystic Warriors. Each includes a prestige class. These prestige classes share a common underpinning: the vitus and technique system presented in the book.

Techniques are special abilities that each of the presented prestige classes can use. The classes receive them in a similar manner to spells. The techniques are arranged into 5 levels, and each class has a chart describing how many techniques they can use of each level according to their class level. Like the spells of a sorcerer or bard, there is a table determining how many techniques the characters knows and a separate table describing how many they can use per day. Unlike spells, you get more techniques known from high ability scores instead of getting more uses per day. However, one error in the text is that the book never states which ability score you use to get extra techniques, though it would be possible to make an educated guess that it is the same stat that the class uses to get bonus vitus (see below).

The book states that techniques are all special abilities. I found that decision somewhat questionable, as many of the abilities sound like they could only come about by magical effects and should be considered spell like or supernatural abilities. For some techniques this makes sense, such vital strike that give the character a chance at a critical strike automatically. However others do things like make a glowing double or create a burst of life force that seem like they would be explicitly supernatural to me.

In addition to the limited uses per day, techniques cost the character a number of vitus points. Vitus are a resource representing the warrior's self confidence. In essence, the vitus system is a spell point system. In addition to being the currency with which you pay for the use of techniques, vitus is also used for the class abilities of some mystic warriors. Some techniques can be enhanced by the expenditure of additional vitus.

A new skill is introduced in the book, harness vitus. The primary purpose of harness vitus is to enhance the use of techniques. It can also be used to give the character a second chance saving throw if she fails a willpower save. For some reason, no vitus seems to be expended in this latter use of the skill. The skill is a cross class skill for all classes but the mystic warrior classes presented in the book, and all such classes require some ranks in the skill as an entry requirement.

All classes gain some vitus each level. This is a meager 3 points per level for non-mystic warrior class. Mystic warriors receive from 7-10 points (depending on class) plus charisma bonus plus the bonus from one other stat (again depending on class) per mystic warrior class level.

The tracking of vitus seems like it would not fit well with the styles of some groups. Fortunately, some notes are provided for excluding the use of vitus and making other adaptations to fit the classes and technique system to a different setting.

Each mystic warrior tradition includes a prestige class that defines members of the order and a short vignette showing an example of the members of the order. All of the prestige classes have a techniques per level table, but it is not made clear whether this is supposed to describe the techniques known or the techniques available per day, but by comparing those tables to standard tables in the beginning of the book, they appear to be the latter.

The prestige classes are conceptually sound. Each is built around an order, cult, or sect. The concepts vary widely, giving players a good range of options. Some are typical fare that you might expect your players to want to play, like a pugilist order and a knight-like order. Beyond those, there are many unique and interesting concepts. For example, the Revenant Guard is a very cool concept. People become Revenant Guards who were forced to take vengeance for wrongs done to them. They are sympathetic to the plight of those who passed on without the chance to avenge themselves. They occasionally share their body with the spirit of such an unfortunate, and help them achieve vengeance. Some of their class abilities stem from this co-habitation. This is a great concept, loaded with campaign possibilities.

However, the prestige classes seem fairly powerful. They have moderate to good fighting abilities, a good selection of special abilities, and access to techniques. The author hopes to address this by giving each class several role-playing strictures, a technique that I do not think works in general.

Some prestige classes also use nonstandard BAB and saving throw advancement for no apparent reason. This is despite the fact that in the beginning of the book, they reiterate that the classes will use one of the standard advancement schemes. This makes me suspect that the numbers were in error and that some authors weren't fully versed with D20 system conventions.

In addition to this material, some special magic items and sample NPCs for the orders are also presented.

Summary

In a strange way, this book was disappointing. When I first started reading about the techniques, I hoped that it would pan out to be an interesting and useful concept. To a certain extent it is, but it needs some work. I found it rather odd that they gave both a point system for their use and a uses per day chart, and threw in other uses of the vitus system. Combined, this makes it seem like the system would require some tedious accounting during play to little effect. The recommendations for removing vitus sound like they would make the techniques more workable, however.

In addition, I found the classes a bit overpowered. As mentioned, the authors appeal to the presence of role-playing disadvantages as a balance. In my experience, this does not work out well, and it is a general D&D 3e / D20 system practice to avoid using role-playing strictures as a major balancing point, and for good reason. Consider, for example, how much more balanced and playable the 3e barbarian is than the one that appeared in the Unearthed Arcana years ago. Attitude problems are a poor reason to give characters benefits, especially when virtually any character can have such role-playing issues, yet no other character gets compensation for it.

If you are willing to polish up the classes and work with the vitus system, there is a lot of good material to be had in this book. However, as is the case with any book -- even of this size -- which required a lot of retooling by the end user, I can only give this book an average rating.

-Alan D. Kohler
 

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Now, I've said it before, I'll say it again:

I Love Crunchy Bits! Load me up with Prestige Classes, feats, tricks, toys and so on and I'm a happy camper!

But this book has some SERIOUS game balance issues. The Prestige Classes are either TOO freakin' powerful (Hi, I'm a rogue who can attack a few additional times per round with knives, with an AC bonus, surprise bonus, and a huge selection of funky powers that can increase my stats and strike you dead), too restrictive (Hi, I'm a necromancer who can NEVER own a single magic item except a scythe and robe - this means I'm gonna suck hard when compared to other characters of my level), or too powerful (I'm a super ice-barbarian with a huge selection of funky powers that can increase my stats and strike you dead).

The ideas are great. I love the Vitus point ideas (but they require a lot more paperwork in game), but the fact that most of the Prestige Classes who can USE these powers already have at LEAST enough of their own prestige-class specific abilities to make them as strong as any published class BEFORE you factor in these new vitus techniques makes the whole thing broken. Many of the Prestige Classes are also EXCELLENT concepts with some excellent rules... but they need to be toned down to make them playable.

Also, these guys need some help learning the actual D20 rules. There are several abilities and techniques that change your initiative score mid-combat ("whoa, on Initiative 14 I attack and trigger my power that gives me -4 initiative... now do I get to attack on initiative 10 too?") and a lot of techniques that counter the disadvantage of facing... except that there are no rules for facing in 3e. They also claim that all the classes follow standard BAB and save progressions... and then they don't.

Overall, to make use of these 20+ classes in your game, you'll have to rebuild them from the ground up... which is a lot more work than I plan to do AFTER spending money on a gaming book.
 


Normally I do not comment on products here, especially our own, but felt that I had to in order to make clear some things regarding this review. First, thanks for appreciating our ideas. The comments here are not a slam, just a correction.
The biggest thing on both reviews is it appears these are observations and no playtesting was done at all. With extensive amounts of new material much is easily overlooked without playetesting.
Facing rules were given away instead of appearing in the book and are on our site and RPGnow for free. We did not want to waste to much of this 128 page (only $14.95) book on optional rules of this nature. There are only three (or so) minor references to facing in the book. Done on purpose.
Second, The rogue character mentioned can be powerful but the reviewer neglected to mention two things. There are some significant restrictions to the "dance of knives" and the character that has access to the most powerful abilities would be in the area of 16th + level overall. These abilities are not as powerful as a sorcerer of equal level.
Third, there is no ability that changes initiative mid-round, you misread.
Fourth, some of the classes are obviously meant to be adversaries and NPC but a PC could take it if they wanted too. It is not up to us to restrict the players in this way but up to the DM.
Fifth and last, We did not state we were always using standard BAB and in fact showed ranges that demonstrate the contrary. It states clearly they will vary according to class.
Will there need to be a little errata, sure, there are in all new rules. Most of these classes were playtested rigorously though and work without any alterations in a standard campaign but we did always have experienced DMs who knew how to manage different types of play.
 

Psion

Adventurer
mysticeye,

I didn't address the facing thing in my review... but I intended to. The book doesn't tell you where to get them (I happened upon them by chance) and easy web access should not be assumed. If you were going to reference them, you should have included them. You could have easily afforded the space if you reduced the cell padding and/or didn't repeat one of 2 technique tables on each class but rather just listed the two tables once.

Second, regarding nonstandard BABs: Actually, you do sort of imply that you will be using standard BAB and saves in the front -- there is a table in the front that has a breakdown of the standard progressions that the classes will be expected to use.

At any rate, if you are making a stand alone d20 product, I would say feel free to do what you think is needed with BABs. However, this is clearly a product targeted at D&D. When in Rome, wear a toga. You really should have stuck with the standard BAB and save advancements.

Finally, regarding compensation, I think I've said enough in my review of this product.
 

I have to agree with Psion, that the Role-Playing compensations for most of the classes are NOT good enough balancing factors.

As for the comment about not changing initiative in mid round - how about this one:

"Green Viper Style (Fighting Stance)
...
Benefits: Once in the stance, the character will receive +5 to initiative..."

Explain where I misread that?

Or this one

"Taught Tug (General)
...
Benefits: ... Using the Taught Tug feat adds +2 damage to the archery attacks of that round. However, it drops the warrior's initiative by 5 to a minimum of 1."

So, if this DOESN'T change your initiative once combat begins, WHAT does it do?
 

Well, this is not a forum but a comment section so I will not add to this any further than here.

First, At risk of putting words into your mouth and Psion’s (psion, I respect your review by the way-I did not add comment to yours but...). You both suggest that people can no longer role play so role play based disadvantages won't work (not a quote but my opinion of what you wrote). They are certainly more difficult and require some experienced DMing though.
Also, not all strictures/restrictions in MW are role play oriented. Example: Wind Warrior-Understand the storm, they must take levels in Knowledge (nature) to understand the storms and weather better.
Self contemplation- Revenant Guard. They have to make rolls to keep their identity separate from the spirit they are hosting or potentially lose themselves.
Just two examples, there are more, but you made a blanket statement. I have better faith (maybe I am wrong) in role players that they can make use of some role playing restrictions and that they can work. Not everyone out their is a CRPG leveling, power building, roll playing junky.

O.K. Green viper style is a fighting stance that requires a standard action to enter. It also has movement restrictions. It should be obvious, maybe its not, that the init bonus would apply to your next roll for initiative after entering the stance since you can maintain a stance as long as you don't break the restrictions of it, in this case, move more than 5 feet.

Taught Tug: Well, you are kinda right. This feat does drop your initiative (because you are taking time to aim longer) but if you play it this way it works. We could (and will do) errata to clarify this feat better.
Also, If you are looking for the perfect set of rules please go buy a WOTC book...oh wait, I have seen over 200 pages of typos,eratta, and mistakes compiled by fans for the three core books and they are releasing the MM errata soon. I guess there are no perfect rule books. Someone will find fault in all of them as we are all imperfect.

I promise you, if you played some of the Mystic Warriors in your game, as others are doing (and enjoying)you will find this book better than you think. But you have your opinion and I respect that, I just felt the need to clarify some hard, more objective points.

Lastly, Psion, I am not going to dispute you on the BAB thing but there are two references that state it may, and will vary. We gave guidelines for people to build their own, these are not hard, fast rules. Also, this book was written for our setting due out in January(regarding the stand alone remark) but is portable and we gave plenty of options for not using vitus, or techniques, or how to use them in a more traditional 3e way so that they can fit in any 3e setting. (Psion-you mention this but crunchy bits did not).
I promise I will not add further to this, it was not my intent to start a comment war. I just get frustrated with blanket, unexplained statements and ,not always, accurate information given in some reviews. You would to if you were on this side. I also did not like that crunchy bits review (and comment) was extremely sarcastic in parts. I guess I need thicker skin and I am sorry for that.
 

"the init bonus would apply to your next roll for initiative after entering the stance"

So, the next FIGHT after you enter the stance (since you only roll for initiative at the beginning of each combat)? If so, how on earth are you going to maintain the stance from one combat to the next?

Honestly, I *LOVE* the idea of combat stances as Feats. I just think they require some work.
 

Man, I know I promised but...

Under init checks in the phb it states-quoted in part- each character acts in turn, with the check applying to all rounds of the combat (unless a character takes an action that results in her initiative changing )

In this case, entering a fighting stance that will change initiative. O.K...really, I am done.
 


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