Natural Bond [CAdv] and Alternative Animal Companions

[Hypersmurf]

Interesting idea. I had always though of it as more of catch up skill for multi-classed druids and rangers.

Well, in similar fashion, Practised Spellcaster is a catch-up feat for casters with less than a full caster level progression - rangers and paladins, certain PrCs, and multiclassed primary casters.

But a Cleric-12 with the Mageslayer feat, for example, takes a -4 penalty on his caster level... so the Practised Spellcaster feat is of use for him, despite being a single-classed primary caster.

-Hyp.

 

[Klaus]

And Rangers don't need to be multiclassed to take Natural Bond. Ranger 12 has an effective druid level of 6. Add +3 for Natural Bond and his effective druid level becomes 9.

Suddenly the ranger's companion becomes useful in combat again for something other than Aid Another!

 

[Thanee]

That's exactly what gets raised by Natural Bond, so the two cancel out

The language used is similar, but I would still say no.

You are not canceling a penalty there, as you do with the above Practiced Spellcaster examples. The druid does have the full effect already, either with a wolf and full 10 levels of bonus abilities or with a wolverine and only 7 levels of bonus abilities. Both use the full 10 levels of the druid, the wolverine counts for 3 levels, so to say, therefore the feat should not apply.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Hypersmurf]

You are not canceling a penalty there, as you do with the above Practiced Spellcaster examples.

What does "Level - 3" mean if not a penalty?

A Drd12 with a Wolverine companion applies the indicated adjustment to the druid’s level (-3) for purposes of determining the companion’s characteristics and special abilities.

For purposes of determining the wolverine's characteristics and special abilities, his effective druid level is 9.

Natural Bond allows him to add +3 to his effective druid level for purposes of determining the wolverine's characteristics and special abilities, up to a limit of his hit dice. 9 + 3 is 12 - not exceeding his hit dice.

-Hyp.

 

[Thanee]

What does "Level - 3" mean if not a penalty?

It just means you look into a different line in the table.

A Drd12 with a Wolverine companion applies the indicated adjustment to the druid’s level (-3) for purposes of determining the companion’s characteristics and special abilities.

For purposes of determining the wolverine's characteristics and special abilities, his effective druid level is 9.

Natural Bond allows him to add +3 to his effective druid level for purposes of determining the wolverine's characteristics and special abilities, up to a limit of his hit dice. 9 + 3 is 12 - not exceeding his hit dice.

Yes, I know that.

I just don't think that is what was intended here. The feat surely is meant to be more like Practiced Spellcaster, don't you think?

Basically you 'spend' 3 levels to upgrade your wolf to a wolverine and then the remaining 7 levels to add special abilities.

As I said, that's what I think is meant there. I know, that it is not precisely what is written there.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Hypersmurf]

Basically you 'spend' 3 levels to upgrade your wolf to a wolverine and then the remaining 7 levels to add special abilities.

You subtract three levels from your effective druid level to upgrade your wolf to a wolverine, and then the remaining levels add special abilities.

Since your effective druid level is less than your character level, it can be improved by Natural Bond.

It definitely says that you adjust the level, rather than applying a portion of the level to a different aspect.

-Hyp.

 

[jgsugden]

This falls in a gray area ... an honest player will take both sides of the argument to his DM and ask for a ruling based upon all the facts.

IMHO, it should be allowed for the reasons others, including Hyper, have stated.

Here's another question for you ... if your druid gets hit by an enervation, does his animal companion lose hit dice? ... ;-)

 

[Hypersmurf]

Here's another question for you ... if your druid gets hit by an enervation, does his animal companion lose hit dice? ... ;-)

It's an interesting question.

You take "-1 effective level (whenever the creature’s level is used in a die roll or calculation, reduce it by one for each negative level)".

"The creature's level" normally refers to character level, rather than class level.

For example, if I have a multiclassed Rog4/Bbn 2/Ftr2, she has Improved Uncanny Dodge. Her barbarian and rogue levels stack to determine the rogue level an attacker needs to flank her.

What effect does a negative level have on that? Her rogue and barbarian levels sum to 6, so normally an attacker must be a Rog10 to flank. Does the negative level impose a -1 on both her rogue effective level and barbarian effective level, meaning an attacker must be Rog8? Does it impose a -1 on the sum, meaning an attacker must be Rog9? Or does it only impose a -1 when character level is used, thus having no effect on this calculation that is related to class levels, not character levels?

-Hyp.

 

[Drowbane]

So a Ranger 5 / Beastmaster 1 with Natural Bond...

Animal Companion would be as a 9th lvl Druid?! Holy crap!
Ranger lvls: 2
Natural Bond: 3
Beastmaster lvl: 1
Beastmaster bonus: 3 (can exceed character lvl)

"So, I'm an uber wolf with a Elf-Ranger cohort"

 

[Klaus]

Sounds like it.