Natural Bond - Overpowered?

[Sejs]

Simply tell the player that you have some doubts about how the raptor will work out, that you feel it might be a bit overpowered with the Natural Bond feat, and that it's okay for now but if it proves to be too much of an issue you two will go back and ret-con the feat into something else.


Communication, yo. Most players I know wouldn't have a problem with that, particularly if it's impacting on the game negatively.

 

[Drowbane]

Hey everyone,

I am currently running a group of players through the Savage Tide AP. One of my players is bringing in an 11th level druid. He is selecting a Deinonychus (raptor) as his animal companion (which is fine). However, he also wants to take the Natural Bond feat from complete adventurer, which increases his druid level by +3 for the purposes of his animal companion's abilities. Before the feat, he would have been considered a level 5 druid. After the feat, he is considered a level 8 druid.

I could go into the details, but in summary the feat will greatly empower the raptor in terms of AC, hit die, BAB and with feats selected as a result of its advancement (i.e. improved natural attack), its damage output increases. In short the raptor will have an average of around 70hp, 5 attacks a round, pounce, an AC of 22, etc.

Im worried that this feat will make the raptor strong enough to outshine some of the other party members (we have a human monk, halfling rogue and human barbarian). Moreover, the druid only needs to gain 3 more levels for the raptor to gain multi-attack, (as opposed to 6 more levels if he doesnt take the feat) which will also greatly boost its performance.

Does anyone here have any experience with this feat? Am I worried over nothing? Is this feat too powerful in the hands of a straight classed druid (i.e. is it designed for multi-classed characters or rangers)?

Any and all help would be appreciated.

The arguement about whether or not Natural Bond offsets the penalty for a better Animal Companion has been made here on these boards at least twice that I remember. Never to any sort of real conclusion.

Give it a shot. If the animal companion is too good, nerf it. Just let the player know ahead of time.

 

[roguerouge]

If it gets to be the primary melee threat, have your opponents focus all attacks on the raptor to take it out. That's the risk you take when you turn your animal companion into something more than a support figure. And it's an animal companion, not a familiar; killing it doesn't cost xp to the player.

If the PC feels bad, have an NPC set up a nice burial at the pet cemetery with a grave stoned marked "It's too bad it was over-powered."

 

[Darklone]

Hmm... Animal Growth...

Animal Companions can be easily replaced... but I'd be interested to see how he is going to find another Deinonychus that fast.

 

[cmanos]

I don't have the book in front of me at the moment, but as I recall, the Natural Bond feat adds three levels to your effective druid level for animal companion, but only up to a maximum of your character level, so a straight druid wouldn't gain any benefit from the feat. I don't think you can use the feat to offset the penalty to level from more powerful animal companions, though I could be wrong.

Nope, you are dead on. The feat is useless for a straight druid.

 

[The_Ditto]

Nope, you are dead on. The feat is useless for a straight druid.

debateable ... there is enough precedents out there to support the use of Natural bond for a straight Druid ... (it only helps offset the level penalty for large companions ... but that's the issue here ...)

And no, not trying to re-raise the argument ... just trying to point out:
"it's not that cut and dry" ... you can easily/safely say: "I believe it doesn't help a straight druid" or "we play that it doesn't help him" ... but I don't think anyone can (easily) claim a guaranteed argument either way in this case ... there's valid points on both sides ...

 

[Jarrod]

Wow, that's clear as mud.

This bonus can never make your effective druid level exceed your character level.

Should she select an animal companion from one of these alternative lists, the creature gains abilities as if the character’s druid level were lower than it actually is.

So what is "effective druid level"? My reading says that it's the levels of druid you have, not (druid - creature penalty). So your effective druid level caps out _before_ you do the subtraction for a better companion, not after. Especially because of that "lower than it actually is" line.

 

[RangerWickett]

I believe the intent of the feat is to let a multiclassed druid (or a ranger) get at best an animal companion whose power is equivalent to what a single-classed druid of the same level would have. I view it the same as practiced spellcaster. It's intended to offset the drawback of multiclassing.

I would not let the player take a 'high-level' animal companion and off-set the reduced abilities with the feat. A deinonychus with +2 HD, +2 AC, +1 Str, +1 Dex, 2 bonus tricks, and devotion is equivalent to what an 11th level druid should have.

If he wants a stronger animal companion, he can swap out Natural Bond for Skill Focus (Handle Animal), and take a level of beastmaster (also in Complete Adventurer). A druid 10/beastmaster 1 would have the animal companion of a 14th level druid, but only 10 levels of spellcasting.

 

[Gregor]

I believe the intent of the feat is to let a multiclassed druid (or a ranger) get at best an animal companion whose power is equivalent to what a single-classed druid of the same level would have. I view it the same as practiced spellcaster. It's intended to offset the drawback of multiclassing.

Those are my exact feelings on the feat.

The good news is that I brought up my concerns with the player and he is totally cool with not taking the feat.

Thanks for all the advice everyone!

 

[Klaus]

I see no problem with the feat whatsoever. The character still needs to spend move actions to direct who the deynonichus attacks. The deinonychus is still a Large creature, and will have trouble squeezing into dungeons. It still has a very low AC for the current level of play (a Fighter 11 will have an AC in the mid-20s, whereas the deinonychus will have what, 18?).

The deinonychus will be a paper tiger: it can deal good damage (but keep in mind that without greater magic fang or animal growth, its natural weapons won't bypass DR x/magic), but it is far too easy to hit, leading to Power Attacking, leading to more damage, leading to those extra HD lasting all of one round.