Nature spirits

[hong]

You know, the things that show up in folk culture and religion in all sorts of places, but are first statted out in OA. The spirits that inhabit the soil, trees, stones, clouds, storms, and in fact almost anything you can put a name to.

In OA, they were fey, but in 4E, perhaps they should really be elementals. The Elemental Chaos is what everything came from, so having nature spirits be tied to that makes a certain kind of cosmological sense.

It also ties in nicely with the new elementals being a mix of all elements, rather than just air/water/fire/earth.

And it's consistent with this new "primal" power source that's been mentioned, which seems to have ties to nature (beasts and plants) and elementalism.

Hmm.

 

[Burr]

As elementals, perhaps they could be mostly invisible/infused in the mundane world, but more likely to assume a 'creature' form in the Feywild (unless called out in the mundane world by magic/shamanism).

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

You know, the things that show up in folk culture and religion in all sorts of places, but are first statted out in OA. The spirits that inhabit the soil, trees, stones, clouds, storms, and in fact almost anything you can put a name to.

In OA, they were fey, but in 4E, perhaps they should really be elementals. The Elemental Chaos is what everything came from, so having nature spirits be tied to that makes a certain kind of cosmological sense.

It also ties in nicely with the new elementals being a mix of all elements, rather than just air/water/fire/earth.

And it's consistent with this new "primal" power source that's been mentioned, which seems to have ties to nature (beasts and plants) and elementalism.

Hmm.

Sounds like an interesting idea. Nothing from the previews indicate that nature spirits are in. I hope there will be some. But if not, I might actually try to create them myself.

 

[Klaus]

You know, the things that show up in folk culture and religion in all sorts of places, but are first statted out in OA. The spirits that inhabit the soil, trees, stones, clouds, storms, and in fact almost anything you can put a name to.

In OA, they were fey, but in 4E, perhaps they should really be elementals. The Elemental Chaos is what everything came from, so having nature spirits be tied to that makes a certain kind of cosmological sense.

It also ties in nicely with the new elementals being a mix of all elements, rather than just air/water/fire/earth.

And it's consistent with this new "primal" power source that's been mentioned, which seems to have ties to nature (beasts and plants) and elementalism.

Hmm.

I dunno, "nature spirits" seem more "Feywild" than "Elemental Chaos".

 

[Lackhand]

I agree. Spirits of the forest and field are totally fey for me.
(it's the abs.)

Even spirits of mountains and waterfalls, while they could be Elemental Chaos-type-elementals, still seem like a better fit for the spirit world Feywild.

I think it's because of the themes I want the two distinct places to have. The Elemental Chaos is a braid of various fundamental (from a given point of view) building blocks -- iron, fire, stormclouds; maybe even thorns, bone, and blood. Certainly as you draw near The Chained One's prison, thorns, bone, and blood.
The beings from that place just feel like they should represent that same fundamental stuff.

The Feywild, as the "magical mirror of the Material", feels like the proper home of the spirits of mountain, lake, field, fen, and forest. The whole theme is different, dealing more with direct analogues of terrain features, and leylines, fairy circles, and other such set-dressing that tie spiritual aspects to geography. That seems like a pretty reasonable gloss for spirit folk.

I'd be perfectly okay with making one set of stats serve two masters, but I don't think that'll happen -- not a value judgment, just a statement of estimated probability. Monsters are compact; might as well publish 'em.

I'm okay with Nature and Arcane and "Dudes from the Elemental Chaos" all harnessing neat lightning powers. I seem to recall a few Arcane spells that deal radiant damage, for example. So just "treading on thematic toes" probably isn't enough reason to collide 'em.

 

[Jhaelen]

In OA, they were fey, but in 4E, perhaps they should really be elementals.

Hmm, no, I don't think so. I think fey is the best match. Nymphs of all kinds (Dryads, Sylphs, Oreads, Naiads, etc.), Treants, Galeb Duhr, etc. These are all nature spirits to me, many of them have a strong connection to a specific element, though.

 

[Irda Ranger]

You know, the things that show up in folk culture and religion in all sorts of places, but are first statted out in OA. The spirits that inhabit the soil, trees, stones, clouds, storms, and in fact almost anything you can put a name to.

In OA, they were fey, but in 4E, perhaps they should really be elementals. The Elemental Chaos is what everything came from, so having nature spirits be tied to that makes a certain kind of cosmological sense.

It also ties in nicely with the new elementals being a mix of all elements, rather than just air/water/fire/earth.

And it's consistent with this new "primal" power source that's been mentioned, which seems to have ties to nature (beasts and plants) and elementalism.

Hmm.

I can definitely see that. If a Druid or Barbarian is Primal, than "nature spirits" should be too. Maybe 4E will even call them Primal Spirits.

Remind me, how are undead types divided up? Maybe nature spirits are the Primal version of Ghosts and Wraiths. Is that the "animus"? Or is that needless symmetry?

I see the Feywild as the Arcane version of the world, not the "nature" version of the world. Each of the Feywild, the Shadowfell and the World are "natural", as they are all made from the same mix of Elemental bits. Fey is what happens when plants and animals become magical, not when they become "even more naturey than normal trees."

 

[Boarstorm]

I dunno, "nature spirits" seem more "Feywild" than "Elemental Chaos".

I think it's a matter of terminology for me. "Nature spirits" really does feel Feywild. It's hard to divorce the concept from Dryads, Neriads, etc.

If they called them, I dunno, "essences of earth" or whatnot, I could definately see a tie to the elemental chaos.

 

[Kaffis]

As elementals, perhaps they could be mostly invisible/infused in the mundane world, but more likely to assume a 'creature' form in the Feywild (unless called out in the mundane world by magic/shamanism).

I kind of like hong's OP idea on the merits of associating these with the primal power source. I could certainly live with it if it were pitched that way, at least.

In which case, I definitely think your addendum, Burr, is excellent. It allows such spirits and beings to be fueled by primal, but still have a strong association with the Feywild.

In fact, anything in the Feywild would have to have a non-Fey power source, because a Fey power source doesn't exist. Or at least, the conclusion I draw from the Warlock's Fey pact (in an arcane class) is that there won't be a Fey power source in the future... the beings that inhabit the Feywild draw from a power source not unique to the Fey -- arcane, in the case of whoever the Warlock deals with, and likely Eladrin, as well, and many other denizens. But I think it would be silly to have all Fey be arcanely powered.

If one assumes druids will be PHBII, then I think it wouldn't be a bad guess to figure that the MMII will be looking for some primal monsters. If we're missing nymphs and their ilk in MMI, then I think it would lend support and likelihood to hong's notion.

Irda makes good points, too.

 

[Rechan]

If we're discussing things like Kami/little gods/entities that represent a Concept, then I would just like to remind that there are more "spirits" out there than strictly Nature-based ones.

Spirits can represent the soul of a city, the paragon of an animal, a concept like language, or an entity of memory/intelligence, a guardian, etc.

Exalted actually has spirits like this tightly woven into their setting. There, spirits are the supernatural equivalent of a hierarchy of administrators - you have a spirit that rules over a local stream, who is less powerful and influential than the river spirit its stream feeds into. The river spirit is less powerful and heeds to the larger river it feeds into, and that spirit heeds to the ocean, and the ocean spirit heeds to the God of Water. The local stream spirit is responsible for that stream's working, and to handle the prayers that the locals give it, getting them up to heaven, etc etc.

I really love spirits in such a capacity, because you can talk to them, negotiate with them, gain boons from them in exchange for favors, etc. If you create your own city, then you need to go find a spirit to live in it as the soul of the city. Once, we were laying siege to a walled city that sat on a river, and we convinced the river spirit to stop the river's flow we could dam the river, cutting off the city's supply lines/reinforcements. There's more, but you get the idea.