Need a system recommendation

Reynard · Oct 4, 2018

This thread prompted me to finally go ahead and spring for Genysis (plus some dice). I have been curious for a while. I'll be curious to see how easy it is to build in community rules.

Ratskinner · Oct 12, 2018

Nights Black Agents, Gumshoe system.

Mercule · Oct 12, 2018

Reynard said:
This thread prompted me to finally go ahead and spring for Genysis (plus some dice). I have been curious for a while. I'll be curious to see how easy it is to build in community rules.

I picked it up when it was on sale for something like $12.50. I liked a lot of what it tries to do and would happily play it. Ultimately, it wasn't enough to suck me away from D&D because I wanted something lighter weight and I felt that Genesys is almost exactly as "heavy" as D&D. Yes, it lacks levels and classes are much more suggestions than straight-jackets (which I consider to be a huge plus). But, my players are resistant to changing systems, so not worth the effort -- especially because I had my eye on Fate specifically because I'm tired of having to memorize rules-by-exception and like the idea of "makes sense for your character".

Still, I may have to pick up the Terranoth sourcebook, sometime.

Reynard · Oct 12, 2018

Mercule said:
I picked it up when it was on sale for something like $12.50. I liked a lot of what it tries to do and would happily play it. Ultimately, it wasn't enough to suck me away from D&D because I wanted something lighter weight and I felt that Genesys is almost exactly as "heavy" as D&D. Yes, it lacks levels and classes are much more suggestions than straight-jackets (which I consider to be a huge plus). But, my players are resistant to changing systems, so not worth the effort -- especially because I had my eye on Fate specifically because I'm tired of having to memorize rules-by-exception and like the idea of "makes sense for your character".

Still, I may have to pick up the Terranoth sourcebook, sometime.

My decision to pick up and try Genesys was not based on system "heft" so much as it being a nonbinary core mechanic. I am kind of tired of pass/fail.

Also, anything without a power and complexity ramp is good for me. I have grown to dislike running even mid level 5E.

Mercule · Oct 12, 2018

Reynard said:
My decision to pick up and try Genesys was not based on system "heft" so much as it being a nonbinary core mechanic. I am kind of tired of pass/fail.

Yeah. This definitely is appealing. I'm kinda wondering whether it requires prior buy-in for the narrative dice to work or if the mechanics would pull narration out of reticent players.

Also, anything without a power and complexity ramp is good for me. I have grown to dislike running even mid level 5E.

This is where Fate (among others) appeals to me, as well. 5E D&D has a "sweet spot" of 5th-10th levels (or so). I can deal with the 1-3 "training" levels, but have been starting games at 3rd. I've also made it clear to my players that things will wrap right around the time they get 5th level spells -- and it's really the spells that bug me, though oodles of HP aren't a winner, either.

I'm not totally sold on just how little advancement there is to Fate. I'd like to see the characters grow some. But, I haven't played in a campaign of it, yet, and it's easier to add in rewards than it is to take them out.

Edit: I like the advancement pace from both Shadowrun and WoD. Both as a player and GM, it always seemed like the PCs improved enough to feel like they were growing but not so fast that they outpaced what was going on around them.

Ratskinner · Oct 14, 2018

Mercule said:
This is where Fate (among others) appeals to me, as well. 5E D&D has a "sweet spot" of 5th-10th levels (or so). I can deal with the 1-3 "training" levels, but have been starting games at 3rd. I've also made it clear to my players that things will wrap right around the time they get 5th level spells -- and it's really the spells that bug me, though oodles of HP aren't a winner, either.

This matches my experience as well, although plenty of things in D&D beyond the spells manage to bug me as well.. It seems like once you get to about 10th, there's just too much to keep track of and the story just drags and drags behind the weight of the combat. Plus all the attendant homework for the DM. I just ran a 5e game up to level 8/9 and was relieved when the party TPK'd on a trap.

Mercule said:
I'm not totally sold on just how little advancement there is to Fate. I'd like to see the characters grow some. But, I haven't played in a campaign of it, yet, and it's easier to add in rewards than it is to take them out.

I've run a few Fate campaigns, and I've seen two issues with advancement in "default" Fate:

a) Fate presumes that characters are pretty competent right out of the gate. You don't have to wait through two years of play to gather enough feats and skill points to have the character you envision. However, that makes it harder to pull off the zero-to-hero thing with strictly the default mechanics. You can pull it off more easily with changing aspects to reflect the character's growth, or slightly less easily by tweaking the character generation/starting point or Stress etc.

b) A "+1" in Fate is kind of a big deal, compared to D&D. This makes the advancement part of growth especially tricky in implementations like Fate Accelerated, with fewer places to put them. (It also leads to the funky rules about which skills you can advance and when to keep your skills in a "pyramid".) Personally, I just create a list of things like "Raise a skill from +1 to +2" or "choose a stunt", and you get to pick one each time you reach major milestone (different in Fate than D&D), but only once.

IME, these aren't really all that big of a deal, except for old grumpy D&D players who really expect a traditional "leveling up" experience. Since Fate can efficiently cover more plot/story, the focus on that generally makes up for it. The real trick is realizing that Fate isn't about your character "leveling up" and is instead more about your character's growth. (Unless, of course, you have Took a level of Badass as an aspect.)

jimmifett · Oct 15, 2018

Recent Live Play I ran this past sunday of Genesys, might be what you are looking for:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oduOUI1lLH4

practicalm · Oct 15, 2018

Probably too rule heavy but I find GURPS easy to run with a lot of the heaviness being in the character creation.

I also like the Dresden Files but haven't run it so not sure how heavy it really is in play.