Need advice on an Arcane Trickster

[Bob5th]

With the devolpements in Problems at the Gaming Table it looks as if we are going to be in need of a new character in the group. We have:
An Archer
A Bard
A Cleric
Looking to try to fill in the missing gap of a Rogue and a Wizard and I was wondering if an Arcane Trickster would be able to pull off both roles. The only Item Creation feat the wizard would take would be wonderous. Looking for suggestions on level split and such.

13th level
Standard gold for 13th level
If you want stats use 30 point buy.

 

[Laslo Tremaine]

If you can use psionics, you might want to look at making a Psion (Savant [Telekinetic]).

They have the basic trap skills as class skills (Search, Disable Device and Open Locks). With an Int of 14 you can esily max them all out. That and you get full psion progression...

If you do this, you may want to look at the revised Psion in "If Thoughts Could Kill" from Malhavoc Press,

 

[bret]

I would go:

Halfling Wiz 13 or Sor 13, 1 feat spent on Leadership.

Get a Halfing Rogue follower.

The follower is probably going to be close enough in level to provide the needed Rogue coverage. Have the Wiz get Create Wonderous Item and create a couple of +skill items for Search and Disable Device.

That should take care of the problem.

 

[Apok]

Well, it kinda depends if you want a little more Rogue or a little more Wizard in your build. The best way I can concieve of doing it would be like this;

Level
1 Rogue 1
2 Rogue 2
3 Wizard 1
4 Wizard 2
5 Rogue 3
6 Wizard 3
7 Wizard 4
8 Wizard 5
9 through 18 Arcane Trickster

At this point, you are going to be the equivalent of a 15th level caster, good enough to get 8th level spells. Weather you choose Rogue or Wizard for the last two levels is going to depend on what you want to focus on. Two more levels of Wizard gets you 9th level spell access, whereas two more levels of Rogue means more skill points, better HD, Uncanny Dodge, and more Sneak Attack damage.

Obviously, you are going to be pretty much your typical Rogue for the first two levels. After that, grab a couple of Wizard levels and augment your Rougly skills with some appropriate magic spells. Try to learn alot of spells that can take advantage of your Sneak Attack also. Switch back to Rogue for a level and then continue on with Wizard until you qualify for the PrC. As far as stats go, high Dex and Int are a must. Specialize in ranged attacks or maybe blow a feat on Weapon Finesse. Skills are critical, so don't spread your points to thin. Pick a few specialties and focus in on them unless you have a monster Intelligence score. The first couple of Rogue levels are going to be your primary source of skill points until you hit Arcane Trickster at 9th level. Normally, I see the Arcane Trickster as the ultimate magically augmented Rogue but they should also be good enough to do double duty as both Rogue and Wizard.

 

[Apok]

Ack, you know what? I totally missed that starting at 13th level part...

So, a Rogue 3/Wizard 5/Arcane Trickster4. Total Caster Level is 9th so you've got 5th level spells. This puts you behind the curve as far as spellcasting goes, since a straight 13th level Wizard would have 7th level spells at this time, but you will catch up eventually.

Going straight Wizard and grabbing a Cohort is another way to go but, IMO, not nearly as much fun as playing an Arcane Trickster. Also, unless your DM is willing to consider him an effective extra PC, he only gains XP at half the rate you gain it. If the DM doesn't mind giving a cohort full XP share if he participates actively in the campaign then all is good.

With regards to stat distribution and magical items, I'll leave that to someone else.

 

[Chun-tzu]

Although Arcane Trickster is a fine choice, I'm thinking a straight Wizard is better. You said you wanted to fill the roles of both Rogue and Wizard, but what part of the Rogue's role, specifically, is the party lacking? If it's a stealth guy, well, you can do that well enough with Invisibility and Fly spells and the like. I doubt it's the social guy, since you've got a Bard. If it's an all-around skills guy, the Arcane Trickster isn't really going to fill that role. His skill selection and breadth is much more limited, and he's spending skill points on important mage stuff.

Between a Bard and the right Wizard spells, I think your party has the crucial Rogue stuff covered (particularly since they've been managing so far). A Rogue cohort, as Bret suggested, is even better. Savant is not a bad choice at all, although it doesn't have the same firepower as a Wizard (and they're not supposed to).

 

[bret]

You need 7 ranks of Decipher Script to qualify for Arcane Trickster.

That means you need at least 4 levels of Rogue if doing it the most straightforward way: Ro4/Wiz5/ArcaneTrickster4.

The Arcane Trickster would only be caster level 9 (5th level spells) while a straight Wizard would be caster level 13 (7th level spells).

That is why I suggested taking a cohort.

 

[GuardianLurker]

Ack, you know what? I totally missed that starting at 13th level part...

So, a Rogue 3/Wizard 5/Arcane Trickster4. Total Caster Level is 9th so you've got 5th level spells.

Minor quibble -
it's Rogue 4/Wizard 5/Arcane Trickster 4 as the fastest you can get there.

As for equipment/feats - in addition to the Create Wonderous, you'll probably also want Create Wand and Brew Potion to up the utility spell use.

 

[tleilaxu]

Trust me, you only need three levels of Rogue

1: Rogue (max skill ranks 4)
2: Wizard (5)
3: Rogue (6)
4: Rogue (7, giving you 7 ranks in decipher script, escape artist, and the other one you need)
5: Wizard
6: Wizard (2nd level spells)
7: Wizard
8: Wizard (3rd level spells, qualifying for the PrC)
9: Arcane Trickster
10: AT
11: AT
12: AT
13: AT
14: AT
15: AT
16: AT (7th level spells, qualifying for Archmage Prc from FRCS, assuming you took spell focus and skill focus for some of your feats)
17: Archmage
18: Archmage (8th level spells)
19: Archmage
20: Archmage (9th level spells!!!)

For feats these ones are good:

Improved Initiative (get more sneak attacks!)
Spell Focus: Illusion
Greater Spell Focus: Illusion
Craft Wonderous Item
Quicken Spell (more sneak attacks!!!!)
Spell Focus: Transmutation, Enchantment, or Evocation suggested
Skill Focus: Spellcraft (for Archmage PrC)

Also, I invented a spell that is a combination of True Strike and Magic Missle. As magic missle has no attack role it can't be used for sneak attack. Just have a 1st level spell that -does- have an attack role, but has a +20 insight bonus to it. This way you'll always have a low level spell that is basically just a way for you to get that sneak attack damage without expending too many high level spells.

For stats (best to worst) i recommend
Intelligence
Dexterity
Charisma
Constitution
Strength
Wisdom

Arcane Trickster is awesome! The main strengths are the sneak attack progression and the additional skill points per level. Plus, the rogue levels make you the ultimate master at disarming magical traps, something that normal wizards cannot do.

Edit: And forget all skills like tumble, balance, climb. You want to be the ultimate magical utility man. The guy you want with you in the forgotten tombs because he can tell you what the ancient writing says, can disable the trap and steal the gem, or if he fails at that use his invisibility to get a sneak attack every round against the gem's guardian.

Up Use Magical Device to 7 ranks (that's as high as you can get it with this build). The the curious dabbler who never went to magical college. Someone who screws around with the wand of cure light wounds, going stealth mode healing party members or sneak attacking.

 

[Shaele]

Trust me, you only need three levels of Rogue

1: Rogue (max skill ranks 4)
2: Wizard (5)
3: Rogue (6)
4: Rogue (7, giving you 7 ranks in decipher script, escape artist, and the other one you need)


Sorry, you're wrong. Decipher script is a class-exclusive skill, so you can't raise it using your Wizard levels. You need 4 levels of a class that grants access to it, namely Rogue.

I've seen folks suggest a level of Loremaster in the middle as an alternative, since it gives you spellcasting progression _plus_ Decipher as a class skill. Of course, you need quite a few wizard levels to qualify for Loremaster, so you end up not moving into Arcane trickster until much later.