Need help calculating Encounter Level - My players keep out!

[IcyCool]

So, I've got a group of 4 players, and they are out looking for some bandits. PC's are 3 6th level and one 5th level. (Wizard, Druid/Wizard, Rogue/Bard/Druid, Aasimar Paladin). Here's what they don't know:

The bandits are actually a splinter group of a larger force, sent here to raid and cause a little mayhem. Present in the camp are the following:

Gnoll Cleric of Yeenoghu 9 (CR 10)
A Marrash (winged gnoll critter and messenger) (CR 5)
2 Gnoll Fighter 3 (Cleric's bodyguards) (CR 4)
5 Gnoll Ranger 1 (Troops, guards, etc.) (CR 2 each)
2 Hounds of Yeenoghu *nod to Blackdirge* (Advanced Fiendish Hyenas (wolf base creature, advanced to large size (6 hit dice)) (CR 4 or 5 I believe)
1 Gnoll Ranger 2 (Houndmaster). (CR 3)

The following are out hunting the surrounding area:
(This group is 2 days away and still looting)
1 Gnoll Warrior 4 (CR 4)
3 Young hounds of Yeenoghu (Advanced Fiendish Hyenas, medium size (3 hit dice)) (CR 2 technically 1, but I feel it's better represented as 2))

(This group is 1 day away and returning from a reasonably successful raid. The players know about this group.)
1 Gnoll Warrior 4 (CR 4)
3 Young hounds of Yeenoghu (Advanced Fiendish Hyenas, medium size (3 hit dice)) (CR 2)

I don't want the encounter to be overwhelming, but neither do I want them to survive a screaming frontal assault on a somewhat fortified position. How would I calculate the EL for the encounter? Am I throwing too much at them? What are some tactics I might be able to use against them?

Thanks in advance.

Edit - I'm somewhat flexible about CRs here, don't be afraid to suggest that I lower or raise them.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

You'll get responses faster if you include CRs.

 

[IcyCool]

You'll get responses faster if you include CRs.

Right, I knew that

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Total party power = 133 (6^2, 6^2, 6^2, and 5^2)

Gnoll Cleric of Yeenoghu 9 (CR 10)
already this guy is power 100 (10^2). 62% party success, 75% resources (meaning he might kill 3 of the 4 of them)

A Marrash (winged gnoll critter and messenger) (CR 5)
2 Gnoll Fighter 3 (Cleric's bodyguards) (CR 4)
5 Gnoll Ranger 1 (Troops, guards, etc.) (CR 2 each)
2 Hounds of Yeenoghu *nod to Blackdirge* (Advanced Fiendish Hyenas (wolf base creature, advanced to large size (6 hit dice)) (CR 4 or 5 I believe)
1 Gnoll Ranger 2 (Houndmaster). (CR 3)

This entire group is power 218. Party survival rate has dropped to 18%.

The following are out hunting the surrounding area:
(This group is 2 days away and still looting)
1 Gnoll Warrior 4 (CR 4)
3 Young hounds of Yeenoghu (Advanced Fiendish Hyenas, medium size (3 hit dice)) (CR 2 technically 1, but I feel it's better represented as 2))

Alone, this group is power 28-- a moderate encounter for your party, almost 90% survival rate with 21% of resources spent.

(This group is 1 day away and returning from a reasonably successful raid. The players know about this group.)
1 Gnoll Warrior 4 (CR 4)
3 Young hounds of Yeenoghu (Advanced Fiendish Hyenas, medium size (3 hit dice)) (CR 2)

Same as above.

The entire warband all together are power 274-- by my calculations, pretty much impossible (206% resources required).

If your party is very well equipped (more wealth than normal) or tougher than they should be (ability scores exceeding the standard array) then their chances improve.

EDIT: Of course, by "improve," I mean, from "Totally F'ing Obliterated" to "Totally Obliterated."

 

[Obscure]

I calculate EL by grouping together monsters of the same CR into little "squads," each with their own EL. Then I add the squad ELs together like CRs to find the total EL. So, for example, if you were to throw all the creatures present in the camp at the PCs all at once, it would go something like this:

Gnoll Rgr2 -- EL 3
Marrash -- EL 5
2 Gnoll Ftr3 -- EL 6
5 Gnoll Rgr1 -- EL 6 (approx.)
2 Hounds of Yeenoghu -- EL 6 (or 7)
Gnoll Clr9 -- EL 10

The Rgr2 and Marrash combine to make an EL 6; combined with the other three EL 6 gives you an EL 10; combine that EL 10 with the cleric and you've got a total EL of 12.

Keep in mind that the greater number of enemies you throw at the PCs, the less accurate EL calculations become, but I think EL 12 is a good estimate. In other words, your PCs would be obliterated if they took on the whole camp at once.

Does this answer your question?

 

[reveal]

Here's a good online Encounter Calculator: http://www.thegamehub.com/gm/encounter.asp

Using it, the first group (in camp) is EL 12.1 (Difficulty: Deadly. Advice to Party: Run Away!)

The group hunting the surrounding area is EL 6.6 (Difficulty: Challenging. Advice to Party: Keep On Your Toes.)

The last group is the same at 6.6.

 

[Obscure]

Whoa, simultaneous post

Total party power = 133 (6^2, 6^2, 6^2, and 5^2)

I'm not familiar with this "power" calculation. Is it homebrew? How does it work?

 

[reveal]

Whoa, simultaneous post

Total party power = 133 (6^2, 6^2, 6^2, and 5^2)

I'm not familiar with this "power" calculation. Is it homebrew? How does it work?

It's from the Grim Tales setting. There's a very cool spreadsheet that was given out on GM's Day that calculates encounter levels very, very quickly. It's probably the most useful tool I have on my computer.

 

[Obscure]

Here's a good online Encounter Calculator: http://www.thegamehub.com/gm/encounter.asp

Using it, the first group (in camp) is EL 12.1 (Difficulty: Deadly. Advice to Party: Run Away!)

When you're right, you're right

 

[IcyCool]

Sound like I need to drop the EL just a bit, but it certainly discourages a frontal assault. I can't get to the EL calculator that was linked to earlier in this thread (blocked, and no working PC at home), does anyone have a different link?

I'm thinking I'd like to drop the EL of the whole camp down to around 10, any suggestions on how to do that? That should be still very difficult to survive if they are foolish about it.

Here's how I'm envisioning the camp setup:

Main tent at the center of the camp houses the Cleric. The loot that the raiders have collected is stashed here. The two tents nearest house the Cleric's bodyguards.

The surrounding 6 tents house the remaining Gnolls (two tents house two Gnolls).

The hounds are chained to an old tree in the eastern portion of the camp, inside the circle of tents.

The Marrash is currently waiting to carry a letter of progress to the Cleric's master, and stays in a small cliffside cave about a hundred yards away from the camp during the day.

There are two guards on patrol at any given time, with the rest of the camp being active during the night. If the need arises, the Houndmaster, one Hound, and two Gnoll flunkies can be dispatched to scout around the camp. The two hunting parties go out every few days to loot and cause mayhem. The group has been here for a little over a month, and have started to let their guard down.

The druid scouted the area and managed to warn and help defend a small farming community against one of the raiding parties (all three hounds in that group were severely wounded by call lighting), and is now winging his way back to the group to warn them about it. They will likely deal with that raiding party before getting to the camp.

I'm looking for a challenging encounter that will only turn into a likely TPK if they are foolish about their plan. Suggestions?