Need help checking scaling of wound levels

[garrowolf]

I know that these kinds of things are subjective but I need some feedback anyway.
I am working on my Nexus D20 system and I am reworking the scale system to fix a problem at the top. I want to make sure that these numbers seem right at the lower end as well.
The way that the scale system works is that you have a size based on the general length of the creature/vehicle.


There are four scales: Standard, Strong, Mighty, and Adamant levels. The Standard Scale covers natural animals. The Strong level covers creatures that are strong for their size as well as vehicles made of lighter materials like wood, plastics and lighter metals such as modern cars. Mighty covers heavier materials, light military vehicles, and reinforced structures. Adamant covers heavy military vehicles such as Tanks, and heavily reinforced bunkers.



This system uses a wound system based on size. Each object has four wound levels listed with them: Light, Moderate, Serious, and Heavy damage. Each one is a range of hit points that the object can take. If the damage total is less than or equal to the light damage range then they take a light wound (-1). If they take greater than light wound but less than or equal to moderate damage then they take a moderate wound (-2) and so on. Damage over the Heavy damage rating is instant death. Moderate damage is twice the light, serious is three times light, and heavy is four times light damage.




Size Examples
[TABLE="width: 474"] [TR] [TD="width: 21"]

Size​

[/TD] [TD="width: 90"]

Scale​

[/TD] [TD="width: 72"]

Length (ft)​

[/TD] [TD="width: 98"]

Length (meters)​

[/TD] [TD="width: 151"] Examples
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 21"]

11​

[/TD] [TD="width: 90"] Medium Transport
[/TD] [TD="width: 72"]

120-200 ft.​

[/TD] [TD="width: 98"]

36.57 - 60.96 m.​

[/TD] [TD="width: 151"]

[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 21"]

10​

[/TD] [TD="width: 90"] Small Transport
[/TD] [TD="width: 72"]

70-120 ft.​

[/TD] [TD="width: 98"]

21.33 - 36.57 m.​

[/TD] [TD="width: 151"] Blue Whale, Ultrasaurus
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 21"]

9​

[/TD] [TD="width: 90"] Huge Vehicle
[/TD] [TD="width: 72"]

35-70 ft.​

[/TD] [TD="width: 98"]

10.66 - 21.33 m.​

[/TD] [TD="width: 151"] Apatosaurus
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 21"]

8​

[/TD] [TD="width: 90"] Large Vehicle
[/TD] [TD="width: 72"]

21-35 ft.​

[/TD] [TD="width: 98"]

6.4 - 10.66 m.​

[/TD] [TD="width: 151"] Tyrannosaurus Rex, Triceratops
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 21"]

7​

[/TD] [TD="width: 90"] Medium Vehicle
[/TD] [TD="width: 72"]

14-21 ft.​

[/TD] [TD="width: 98"]

4.26 - 6.4 m.​

[/TD] [TD="width: 151"] Elephant
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 21"]

6​

[/TD] [TD="width: 90"] Large Character
[/TD] [TD="width: 72"]

7-14 ft.​

[/TD] [TD="width: 98"]

2.13 - 4.26 m.​

[/TD] [TD="width: 151"] Cattle, Horses
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 21"]

5​

[/TD] [TD="width: 90"] Medium Character
[/TD] [TD="width: 72"]

5-7 ft.​

[/TD] [TD="width: 98"]

1.5 - 2.13 m.​

[/TD] [TD="width: 151"] Humans, Great Cat
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 21"]

4​

[/TD] [TD="width: 90"] Small Character
[/TD] [TD="width: 72"]

2^1/2 - 5 ft.​

[/TD] [TD="width: 98"]

0.76 - 1.5 m.​

[/TD] [TD="width: 151"] Eagle
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 21"]

3​

[/TD] [TD="width: 90"] Tiny Creature
[/TD] [TD="width: 72"]

1-2^1/2 ft.​

[/TD] [TD="width: 98"]

0.3 - 0.76 m.​

[/TD] [TD="width: 151"] Falcon, Owl, House Cat
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 21"]

2​

[/TD] [TD="width: 90"] Diminutive Creature
[/TD] [TD="width: 72"]

1/2 - 1 ft.​

[/TD] [TD="width: 98"]

0.15 - 0.3 m.​

[/TD] [TD="width: 151"] Bat
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 21"]

1​

[/TD] [TD="width: 90"] Fine Creature
[/TD] [TD="width: 72"]

< 1/2 ft.​

[/TD] [TD="width: 98"]

<0.15 m.​

[/TD] [TD="width: 151"] Mouse
[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE]






New Character Scale

[TABLE="width: 100%"] [TR] [TD="width: 6%"]

Size​

[/TD] [TD="width: 22%"]

A - Standard​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

B - Strong​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

C - Mighty​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

D - Adamant​

[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 6%"]

10​

[/TD] [TD="width: 22%"]

5120/10240/15360/20480​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

10240/15360/20480/25600​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

15360/30720/46080/61440​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

20480/40960/61440/81920​

[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 6%"]

9​

[/TD] [TD="width: 22%"]

1280/2560/3840/5120​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

2560/3840/5120/6400​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

3840/7680/11520/15360​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

5120/10240/15360/20480​

[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 6%"]

8​

[/TD] [TD="width: 22%"]

320/640/960/1280​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

640/960/1280/1600​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

960/1920/2880/3840​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

1280/2560/3840/5120​

[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 6%"]

7​

[/TD] [TD="width: 22%"]

80/160/240/320​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

160/240/320/400​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

240/480/720/960​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

320/640/960/1280​

[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 6%"]

6​

[/TD] [TD="width: 22%"]

20/40/60/80​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

40/60/80/100​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

60/120/180/240​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

80/160/240/320​

[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 6%"]

5​

[/TD] [TD="width: 22%"]

5/10/15/20​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

10/15/20/25​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

15/30/45/60​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

20/40/60/80​

[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 6%"]

4​

[/TD] [TD="width: 22%"]

4/8/12/16​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

8/12/16/20​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

12/24/36/48​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

16/32/48/64​

[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 6%"]

3​

[/TD] [TD="width: 22%"]

3/6/9/12​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

6/9/12/15​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

9/18/27/36​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

12/24/36/48​

[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 6%"]

2​

[/TD] [TD="width: 22%"]

2/4/6/8​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

4/6/8/10​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

6/12/18/24​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

8/16/24/32​

[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 6%"]

1​

[/TD] [TD="width: 22%"]

1/2/3/4​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

2/3/4/5​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

3/6/9/12​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

4/8/12/16​

[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE]

Old character scale



[TABLE="width: 100%"] [TR] [TD="width: 4%"]

​

[/TD] [TD="width: 23%"]

A – Standard​

[/TD] [TD="width: 25%"]

B – Strong​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

C - Mighty​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

D - Adamant​

[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 4%"]
[/TD] [TD="width: 23%"]
[/TD] [TD="width: 25%"]
[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]
[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 4%"]

10​

[/TD] [TD="width: 23%"]

70/140/210/280​

[/TD] [TD="width: 25%"]

140/210/280/350​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

210/420/630/840​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

280/560/840/1120​

[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 4%"]

9​

[/TD] [TD="width: 23%"]

35/70/105/140​

[/TD] [TD="width: 25%"]

70/105/140/175​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

105/210/315/420​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

140/280/420/560​

[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 4%"]

8​

[/TD] [TD="width: 23%"]

25/50/75/100​

[/TD] [TD="width: 25%"]

50/75/100/125​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

75/150/225/300​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

100/200/300/400​

[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 4%"]

7​

[/TD] [TD="width: 23%"]

15/30/45/60​

[/TD] [TD="width: 25%"]

30/45/60/75​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

45/90/135/180​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

60/120/180/240​

[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 4%"]

6​

[/TD] [TD="width: 23%"]

10/20/30/40​

[/TD] [TD="width: 25%"]

20/30/40/50​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

30/60/90/120​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

40/80/120/160​

[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 4%"]

5​

[/TD] [TD="width: 23%"]

5/10/15/20​

[/TD] [TD="width: 25%"]

10/15/20/25​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

15/30/45/60​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

20/40/60/80​

[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 4%"]

4​

[/TD] [TD="width: 23%"]

4/8/12/16​

[/TD] [TD="width: 25%"]

8/12/16/20​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

12/24/36/48​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

16/32/48/64​

[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 4%"]

3​

[/TD] [TD="width: 23%"]

3/6/9/12​

[/TD] [TD="width: 25%"]

6/9/12/15​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

9/18/27/36​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

12/24/36/48​

[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 4%"]

2​

[/TD] [TD="width: 23%"]

2/4/6/8​

[/TD] [TD="width: 25%"]

4/6/8/10​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

6/12/18/24​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

8/16/24/32​

[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 4%"]

1​

[/TD] [TD="width: 23%"]

1/2/3/4​

[/TD] [TD="width: 25%"]

2/3/4/5​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

3/6/9/12​

[/TD] [TD="width: 24%"]

4/8/12/16​

[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Any thoughts?
General confusion?

 

[The Crimson Binome]

All I'm seeing are point discontinuities.

For creatures on the Standard scale, going from Size 4 to Size 5 gives a +25% bonus to damage capacity, but going from 5 to 6 gives +100% on the Old Character scale, or +200% on the New Character scale. The bottom half of the scale is linear, and the top half is exponential. If anyone can find a way to cross the threshold between Medium and Large, there's a huge bonus to be had. And what's the difference between the Old and the New scales?

And I'm not sure how things are supposed to be scaling across the hardness scale. It looks like Adamant creatures have four times the capacity of Standard creatures, but Strong creatures are just Standard creatures that have their values shifted over by one place. What's your formula?

 

[garrowolf]

I designed the system based on 20 as the value for a human (standard medium creature - size 5) so I had to keep the lower scale the same. The progression increases after that because creatures get much larger based on x4 for each level. Start with the standard scale and go up to see the increase by x4. The first number (light wound) is the basis for that wound scale. The second (moderate wounds) is twice that, the third (serious wounds) is three times the first, and the last (heavy wounds) is four times the first. So it is 25%, 50%, 75%, and 100%. Any damage past that is instant death.

The Strong scale starts with the second value of the standard as it's light value and progresses the same. The Mighty starts with the third, and the Adamant starts with the fourth.

Then all natural weapons, DR, and abilities are based on the scale of the creature. So most animals have the ability to do damage to another of their own kind. So I base their attacks on either light, moderate, or serious wound levels.

The older scale didn't have an actual multiplier. I just put in a progression that looked good. However it didn't work right at the highest end of the scale. The scale goes all the way up to 39 to include Gas Giant Planets. The system includes a very high tech level with planet scale weaponry as well as a low tech level with traditional sword and sorcery.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

The Strong scale starts with the second value of the standard as it's light value and progresses the same. The Mighty starts with the third, and the Adamant starts with the fourth.

The way you're describing it sounds like B-6 (for example) should progress 40/80/120/160, but it's given as 40/60/80/100. The initial value starts with the second value from Standard, but the progression continues the same increment (+20 each time) instead of multiplying x1/x2/x3/x4 based on the new Light damage.

Or maybe I'm still not understanding what you mean?

In other questions, what does base DR scale like? If I have a heavy laser that would kill a person in one shot, can I blow up a planet by shooting it repeatedly?

 

[garrowolf]

Okay it appears that one small mistake in a spreadsheet spreads EVERYWHERE!!!!

Here it is fixed (I think!).

Crap! Now I can't paste a table in here.
I posted it as an attachment.

 

[garrowolf]

Sorry I forgot to respond to your question. DR is a multiple of the light wound level. The muliplier depends on what the object is and possibly the tech level. For instance, at low tech it is often half for wooden ships. Modern military vehicles are x2 or 3. Advanced technology goes up to x15 or so. I'm still working out planets right now but they would be x2 I would think at this point.

 

[GMMichael]

Did I hear "need help?"

:;DMMike wooshes in::

To answer your question (general confusion?): yes.

What does -1 as a light wound mean?
Once a character is in medium wound, does he gain a medium wound, or just increase the severity of his light wound?
What does a wound mean to a squirrel? An aircraft carrier? A gas giant?

Probably the most important question:
What's reducing the hit points, and does it reduce hit points in the same way to anything with hit points?

If you're going to go into detail about creature size, damage reduction, toughness-type, etc., you should take the necessary step of going into detail about hit points and damage as well because they're both huge abstractions. For example, you might use structural integrity, blood volume, and inertial-rotation-balance instead of hit points.

 

[garrowolf]

Inertial-rotation-balance?
Okay characters and vehicles have a wound point chart based on their scale. So if a weapon does 5 points of damage then when you check on the human chart (size 5 standard scale) then you see that is a light wound. That character will take a damage mark of -1 to all their actions until healed. If it is lethal damage that make take a while. If it is stun damage then it may heal over night.

Any injury can cause you penalties to acting. These penalties accumulate and reduce your defenses, attacks, and every other skill use. Everyone gets a wound chart based on their size and how hearty they are. Basically what would be a light wound to you could be a serious wound to a smaller creature. Something that would kill you may not even be noticed by something gigantic!
Each creature and vehicle has a set of wound levels based on their size. Each wound level has a set of effects listed with them. The most basic effect is the accumulation of injuries or bruises. Humans have a wound track of 5/10/15/20. Characters and vehicles of different sizes are based on a different wound scale.

Damage level Thresholds Wound Points
Light (1-5) -1
Moderate (6-10) -2
Serious (11-15) -3 (Stunned)
Heavy (16-20) -4 (Staggered)
Deadly (21+) Disabled/Dying

Two light wounds do not equal a moderate wound. Characters can take a lot of light wounds. You can take a total of -8 in wounds. If some of them are bashing then you are knocked out. If you take -8 in lethal damage then you die.
If you take deadly damage in one hit then you die right then. Different levels of damage have different effects. If you are stunned by an attack then you loose your next action and your current defense goes down. A staggered character has been badly beaten, barely holding on to consciousness. He can only take a single standard or move action each round (not both). It has the same effects as stunned but lasts longer. It takes an hour of rest to get rid of this condition.

Characters also have Toughness and Damage Resistance. Toughness is usually equal to or around your light wound total. So a human usually has around a 5. Weaker people have less and stronger people have more. This negates the first 5 points of damage for all attacks and does not degrade. You are getting cut or bruised but not enough to make a difference. However this will count as a successful touch attack. You can raise your Toughness as your progress in the game.
Damage Resistance is some sort of armor. This can usually be raised by wearing different armor. This will negate a set amount of damage and is applied before Toughness. The DR of the armor goes up with higher tech levels and has additional features as you go up. It could be leather armor or Ironman Power Armor.

Vehicles take damage the same way except stun damage is usually electrical damage for a vehicle. Light damage could be the amount of DR that is applied to shots through the door against passengers. etc. It depends on the design of the vehicle. Damage marks reflect damage to vehicle systems and apply to driving and operations rolls. I have considered a system where your damage marks increase with your scale so if you have a scale 14 craft then the ship can take 14 damage marks before sinking/exploding.

I am just working out the systems for planets now but moderate damage to a planet would probably wipe out the atmosphere at least. I don't know what the damage marks would do on a planet except for build up to destruction.

 

[GMMichael]

I'm gonna need a flowchart here. And I hope it's not as complex as the 5th edition Death Saves chart.

 

[garrowolf]

Are you familiar with wound point systems?

I'm just trying to figure out how much to explain.