Need help guessing ECL and CR

[Aust Diamondew]

For my campaign I needed to create a template to represent a paticular group of super humans. However I need help guessing the CR and ECL.
Heres what I gave it.

- Str +2, Dec +2, Con +2, Int +2, Wis +2, Cha +2.
- Max HP per HD.
- +5 Luck bonus to Attack, Damage, Save, AC and Skill checks.
- DR 5/-
- Fast Healing 5
- SR 10+Level/HD
- 5 resistance to all energies.

I'm guessing it's around +3 CR and +7 ECL but I want a second (third, fourth etc.) opinion.

Thanks for the assistance.

 

[Sir Whiskers]

For my campaign I needed to create a template to represent a paticular group of super humans. However I need help guessing the CR and ECL.
Heres what I gave it.

- Str +2, Dec +2, Con +2, Int +2, Wis +2, Cha +2.
- Max HP per HD.
- +5 Luck bonus to Attack, Damage, Save, AC and Skill checks.
- DR 5/-
- Fast Healing 5
- SR 10+Level/HD
- 5 resistance to all energies.

I'm guessing it's around +3 CR and +7 ECL but I want a second (third, fourth etc.) opinion.

Thanks for the assistance.

+3 CR looks about right to me, though that will depend mostly on what creature you apply the template to (try putting it on a beholder...) As for the LA, I calculated +6, but I could easily be convinced of +7. My off-the-cuff calculation follows:

+0.5 Stats
+1 Max HP
+1.5 Luck bonus
+1 DR
+1 Fast Healing
+1 SR
+0 Resistances

I count the stats and resistances so low because the minimum level for a creature with this template is 7-8, and even then the creature would have only 1 HD of hit points. Once the creature gains a few levels, the stats boosts and resistances won't be very powerful, but still useful.

I was tempted to count the Luck bonuses higher, but the same reasoning applies: by the time a creature has a few levels with this template, we're comparing them to regular characters in the 10+ level range. The +5 bonus just catches them up a bit, but they'll still be low on total hit points through the first few levels.

BTW, unlike most templates, this one is quite valuable at high levels. A 20th-level character with this template is awfully powerful. Imagine a 13th-level monk or fighter with this template added...I think he would compare nicely with a straight Ftr-20 or Mnk-20. Those max HP will look really good at that point.

Is this template for a fantasy campaign? If so, can you tell us some of the background for it? I'm just curious about your concept.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

I wasn't intending to tell its purpose but I'll go ahead and write the short version of the story since you asked. In my campaign there is a vast plain. Called the raskana plains in it are various tribes led by warlords called Raskana (as a title). At one point in this area's existence there was once a warrior of such great fighting prowess he rivaled that of demigods he was call the Vir (pronounced Weer). He united all the tribes of the raskana plains and crushed any foe he and his army went up against. Eventually powerful ogre mage bent on getting vengence for his sons (who had all been killed by Vir) crafted a powerful weapon using a stolen vial of the Vir's own blood. In an epic clash between their two armies they slew each other but the Ogre mages forces were crushed and the previously united tribes of the plains split due to infighting warlords.
Though the Vir's body had been destroyed by the weapon his near diefic power had only been fragmented. Ever since that point every few hundred years a warrior of great skill and leadership is born who is infused with what is left of the first Vir's near deific energy and leads the raskana to do great things. A few of the Vir have even united the tribes under them and none since the first has ever been slain in combat.
A Vir almost always is of a short lived race (Human, Orc occaisonally halfling).

The PCs might soon encounter the current Vir, which is why I need to know the CR and ECL issues. Before it hasn't been an issue for various reasons.

 

[demiurge1138]

I like it. A lot. It'd be a good "micro-template" for lazy DMs who want to buff up something but don't want to advance its HD, and the monster of legend and paragon templates don't fit. I'd agree with Sir Whiskers that +3 CR looks appropriate. I'm not sure about the LA though.

Demiurge out.

Brief edit: I do not mean "lazy DMs" to be an epiphet. I include myself in this category. And I can forsee a use for this, somewhere...

 

[Aust Diamondew]

I like it. A lot. It'd be a good "micro-template" for lazy DMs who want to buff up something but don't want to advance its HD, and the monster of legend and paragon templates don't fit. I'd agree with Sir Whiskers that +3 CR looks appropriate. I'm not sure about the LA though.

Demiurge out.

Brief edit: I do not mean "lazy DMs" to be an epiphet. I include myself in this category. And I can forsee a use for this, somewhere...

I'd do the same thing with it if I didn't have such a specific use for it already.

 

[Coredump]

Well, if it is only for an NPC, than you don't really need the ECL. Just the CR. The ECL is designed for use with PC's since it takes into consideration repeated travel and adventure.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Well, if it is only for an NPC, than you don't really need the ECL. Just the CR. The ECL is designed for use with PC's since it takes into consideration repeated travel and adventure.

Thats true. But in the future of my campaign world (in another game that is) a point will proably come where I let a PC use it for their character.
So I like to take care of all the details at once.