(Need help) How do I make a Paladin WILLING give up their Paladinhood?

[Rackhir]

The problem with the scenario you are proposing is that, while it is a good motivation for leaving the church, it doesn't really provide sufficient motivation for a radical change in alignment to evil. I could see a paladin, presented with your scenario disgusted enough with "laws and Heirarchy" to change to chaotic good, but not evil.

You are presenting the classic Corrupt Authorities Scenario, which usually just leads to the character trying to expose the bad elements. To work for what you want to do, the character would really need not to be presented with just an immediate superior who is corrupt, but a totally corrupt heirachy, where there are no "clean" officials to turn to. However, in a world where magic and alignment are real tangible forces, it's hard for the corruption in the church to be deep enough to drive a character to evil without some pre-existing flaw or weakness to lead them down the path of evil.

Basically, I would say, don't make all the motivation external, which seems to be the main flaw in your scenario (IMHO). Evil works from within, either playing on flaws or seducing a person in to evil action. A lawful good paladin has to have a very strong drive to seek the kind of life a paladin offers and it has to be an equally strong force to drive them away from that.

If you want to bring the PC cleric in to the process, how about this. Since the character is "half-fiend" perhaps, the cleric could "curse" her or give her some relic that activates some of her heritage, so she gets a few HP back whenever she kills something. It could be an addictive sensation, the rush of power and health that comes from consuming part of another's life force. It might also cost her some HP or Con when she hasn't killed anything in a while. Something like that could easily drive her to be less and less careful about what she kills, eventually leading her to kill simply for the rush. At which point she is pretty clearly evil.

 

[Death_Jester]

Thanks for pointing out the error of my plan Rackhir. I will talk to her about what motivates the character and try to use that as a springboard for further corrupting her. As for the magical item that makes her into a blood crazed slaughter machine I have already thought of that. Unfortunately she and the whole party walked around the adventure and now it is going to come back to bit them in the butt.

The Paladin and the Cleric were both introduced in a dungeon crawl as having been there before the current party had discovered that it was there. They had gone there looking for the force that was making the bandits and gnolls to work together. The party found the Paladin and the Cleric fighting a group of four young Gnolls and not making a good show of it. The party helped them make short work of the Gnolls. Then they went to the lower level of the little dungeon that I had prepared and I guess that I made it to scary for them because they all ran out of the place.

What the players didn’t know is that if they had made it to the end of the little crawl they would have gained some demonically influenced magic items. One was a sword that would have become more powerful the more creatures it slayed. But as usual the players ran the other way from the adventure.

I think it will be a relatively simple task to convince the Paladin that the order she serves is not worth her time or effort. But what you are saying is that I need to set down with her and find what makes the character tick in order to really make the story powerful. I can understand that because character driven stories are always the best kind and hopefully the most powerful for the game. I will report what she has to say later on and then we can do some conspiring.

I was thinking of introducing a dead god in the game and having the cleric becoming the high priestess of that new religion. The goddess she serves now once served this dead god and would be willing to give up one of her lower lever priestess’ to him. He will come in to her in a dream and tell her that it is very important to convert the paladin to their service. Think the Dark One from Jordan’s Wheel of time series. I would like to hear what everyone thinks of this idea and how to make it work for the betterment of the Evil campaign. I mean what is an Evil campaign without some horrible decadent religion to spice things up.

The reason that the paladin is so very important to dead god is that she has a direct blood link to the dead god. She is the daughter of the dead gods last remaining slightly crazed avatar. She is able to move around in the campaign world while the Avatar is trapped in the Shadow world. The shadow world is a demi-plane between worlds that acts like a prison for this person but sometimes people form this plane can cross over when the membrane between the worlds is thin. As his granddaughter she can become his conduit to return and claim his rightful place on this plane again.

This is just some of the things I am thinking about really. Looking forward to hearing your feedback.

 

[Rackhir]

Then they went to the lower level of the little dungeon that I had prepared and I guess that I made it to scary for them because they all ran out of the place.

There's a fairly simple solution to that, just let them go up a level or so, that will make them more confident and then have them come across some information that would cause them to want to go back there.

I like the last scion of the dead god idea.

One book you might want to look at (if you can find a copy) would be the Second Book of the South (Glen Cook's "The Black Company Series"), titled "Dreams of Steel". The main character "The Lady", who used to be a really big bad guy, but who now is mostly reformed (at least not actively evil). In it, a trapped evil god, basically Kali (the hindu goddess of destruction) attempt to seduce her into her service, after The Lady has lost her powers. The plots (on both sides) are a bit more complex and don't fully resolve for another 4 books, but it might serve as an interesting model. After all, perhaps it's not really her, they are after corrupting, but her child to be?

 

[Nail]

One way to think about the path toward Evil is: "By any means necessary." Combine that, at first, with a noble goal...and then......

In any case, the Fall into Evil is a slow (if inevitable) self-centered process.....are you sure you (th' DM) wanna take that much time? What about the other PCs. What are they doing? Jus' hangin'?

 

[Death_Jester]

More info.

Rackhir Thanks again for the feedback greatly appreciated. The idea is from part of the Paladin’s background. She was born on a day that the shadow world was close to the campaign setting and she never knew her parents. She was raised by the church and became a Paladin because she felt drawn to the faith. The faith she follows by the way is that of a Warrior god. He prides victory though strength over the subtle tactics of a more organized army. He is rash and given to foolhardy ventures that he manages to win by being a better combatant then his enemies. His Paladins are encouraged to be Chaotic Good in alignment and this is a special advantage to his Paladins only. One other thing is that his Paladins can advance as Fighters also.

The woman playing the Paladin will be out of town for about two weeks in New Orleans getting engaged. Some people just need to get their priorities straight, I tell you. When she gets back however I will set down and talk to her about what drives her and see if we can use that to convert her to the dark side. However I do have to say that this is the Evil campaign after all and she knew in advance that she would be converting it was just a matter of time. After all it as her ideal to play the Black Guard so making her fall will not be that much of a streach.

Now my question of the day for the people reading this thread is what kind of template should I give the Paladin when her powers awaken? This will coincide with the alignment shift to evil of course. But what template would be appropriate for a half god or godling character. I don’t want her to be over powerful but I want it to be something appropriate. I already have one character that is a real half fiend but his powers have yet to manifest. He is a monk and when his powers kick in it will be awesome with all his great background.

Anyway about what the rest of the characters will be doing while I corrupt the Paladin? I was thinking that the Paladin’s quest could become the focus of the campaign for a while.

One of the many goals for the campaign is that the character will join the various kingdoms together in a new league for mutual protection under their rule of course. In order to get a group of characters into court they have to go though a series of steps to get there. One of the MAJOR points is that the old ruler of the land died with the symbol of rulership in his possession. Where he died is this ruined tower and it is surrounded with undead and other nasties. The ghost of the old king still lives there and only a person with pure intentions can request of him the chance to get the symbol. As a matter of fact it has become a standard quest for many of the young knights of her order. (Excalieber anyone?)

The players are going to follow this young knight on her quest because in the long run it will help them achieve their goals and because the NPC mentor of the player will tell them to. (Smiles)

I will try to build a relationship between a druid and the paladin so that later I can use that druid as a hostage later on. The player will be forced into a false atonement for something the fallen paladin and the corrupt cleric will set up. They will use the Druid as a hostage in order to make sure that the paladin behaves. The Druid will be arrested for being a heretic and held without chance of trial unless the Paladin behaves and does as she is told. While she is out on the quest “something” will happen when the Paladin is off on her quest or she will come home in time to find the druid about to be executed and be to late. I am still working on this but I will be updating you in a few days.


I will be fleashing this out in the future.

 

[Rackhir]

One suggestion. If it is something that manefests over a couple of levels you might want to do it as a 5 lv prestige class of some sort, rather than a template. When the character levels, just tell her that she's gained another level of "Evil Demi-God Avatar" rather than having her advance as a blackguard.

I will try to build a relationship between a druid and the paladin so that later I can use that druid as a hostage later on. The player will be forced into a false atonement for something the fallen paladin and the corrupt cleric will set up. They will use the Druid as a hostage in order to make sure that the paladin behaves. The Druid will be arrested for being a heretic and held without chance of trial unless the Paladin behaves and does as she is told. While she is out on the quest “something” will happen when the Paladin is off on her quest or she will come home in time to find the druid about to be executed and be to late. I am still working on this but I will be updating you in a few days.

Vengence is always a good path to the dark side.

 

[FirestormZero]

K Heres my suggestion:

The temple was not always the pristine place of divinity it is today. At one time dark worshipers gathered at the current location of the Temple to worship "(blank)" The God of Hatred and Destruction. They built an underground sanctuary to perform the dark rituals to placate this god. However, when the city was founded they were driven out, or killed. The founders of the city unknowingly built their temple over the ruins. Now the ancient evil awakens, hungering for another worshipper. It calls to the paladin in her dreams, she awakes to hear its voice in her head beckoning her to go to the lower level of the temple where it commands her to dig/find a secret door/passage. Terrified (unless you give her the option of rolling a d20 to see if she can resist the voice) she obeys. The dark god begins to warp her mind summoning creations from it. She becomes warped and serves as a blackguard to him/her.

Hows that one?

 

[Rackhir]

I am interested to hear what the ultimate resolution of the thread is Death_Jester. So I'm looking forward to hearing how you handle this.

 

[Seraphic_Muse]

Hmm..unless this has already been mentioned before in a previous post on this thread. What about having the Paladin lose faith in his deity? Perhaps having seen the deity not living up to their standards or learning some terrible truth about said deity? Or the deity/patron even going so far as to demand something of the Paladin that goes against all their ingrained principles and morals? Another idea would be perhaps, have said deity/patron entrust a most important mission to the paladin, one in which the future of the entire Paladin's Order hangs in the balance, and have the Paladin fail for some reason or another, therefore causing either the paladin to feel so unworthy of his order, that they commit self-imposed exile. Play upon the Paladin's loyalties and sense of honor for that one. Dishonor among Paladin's is a serious thing...but those are just a few ideas to kick around. If they have been mentioned..cool. If not, I hope they help out. Either way, it's all good.

-Seraphic Muse-

 

[Death_Jester]

Keeping you informed.

Greetings Everyone,
I have been busy with things recently like getting engaged myself but now I have some time to get back to my ideals.

OK I have talked to the young lady that is playing the Paladin and while she wasn’t too sure about what motivated the character she did give me one hook that I think will work. By the way she is engaged to the Cleric that is trying to corrupt her not me. I am engaged to the bard that hasn’t shown up in this conversation.


The Player sees the Paladin as the “all for god” type of character. I take it that means a kind of fanatic devotion and loyalty to her faith, all the better if her faith should happen to fail her one-day.

Ok my plan is like this now this is still a work in progress but this is what I am going with for the moment. This plot like so many of mine will be slowly built until it comes to a head and then it will be inevitable. This is the scenario I will be running for the next game.

The young Paladin and the Cleric happen to be at the temple of her god recovering from an attempt to harvest a Yellow Musk Creeper bulb for a local merchant. (By the way I changed the name of the plant and no one knows what it was.) The party left the Paladin and the Cleric at the temple and has since gone back to a trade town called Merrent. So I will be doing a one shot adventure with them to catch them up with the rest of the party. Both of the characters are in deep sleep because they failed the save against the pollen and are slowly getting back their strength. In their near death-like sleep each will have a vision. The Cleric will see her god bow to an alter of the dead god's and instruct her how to perform the ritual that will draw his attention. Once the god’s attention is drawn he will impart the ability to block the Paladin’s powers only twice and give a strong warning about failing him. He will tell her that in order to succeed in her mission the Paladin will have to meet up with the Druid. I may put the burden of playing matchmaker on the Cleric but I haven’t decided that yet.

Meanwhile the Paladin will hear a voice on an infinite plain of dark gray sand. The voice will call her to a well and tell her that if she looks inside she will see her greatest desire. When she looks into the well there will be black oil like substance in it, and the voice will say, “looking into the blackness it is almost like looking into a mirror isn’t it? She will see a world unified by her ability and faith in her god. She will lead many great battles and triumph over many foes because of her personal ability and faithfulness. The voice belongs to a robed figure that has a hood that covers its face. It tells her that in order to accomplish this that she will need a great weapon and that such a weapon has been made for her but it is now in the hands of one unworthy to carry it. She will be told that she must seek out the help of a druid in order to find the person. He is a half elf and only a he can track another elf. The person that is using the weapon is the very Elf that she was supposed to find in the first adventure but the party ran from. Of course the voice talking to her is the very weapon that she will be seeking out. It is called Am’uldur and was created by the dead god’s elven followers to slay humans during the gods’ war. It is one of set of weapons that was blessed by this dark god before his death. It still has great loyalty to him and can detect the blood of her ancestry. It is calling to her in order to be close to its old master.

When they wake up they will meet with the only person that really ever was kind to the Paladin while she was in training. She will tell them about strange goings on at the temple but that everything for the most part is quite. The night before the characters leave the temple the Paladin will come across the fallen Paladin drunk and asleep on watch. What she does from there is up to her. But like I have said before if she brings it to the attention of anyone the fallen cleric will stand up and they will alienate her from the rest of the order but not excommunicate her.

By the way I was thinking about something here, what if the fallen Paladin and the fallen Cleric had sworn faith to “another’ deity or something in order to keep their class abilities so if called upon to do something within the church. That way they could still perform their priestly duties and not look as suspicious. Not only that it will confuse the Young Paladin to no end. Just a thought though let me know what you think. Oh, I have the Green Ronin’s “Legions of Hell” and “Armies of the Abyss” and am just itching to use them. They are very good books to by the way.

Anyway after a while the Paladin and the Cleric will leave out to find the Druid and after a few encounters, find him in the woods. I was thinking about a late night setting they come upon him bathing in a small pond and he walks up to them both naked and bold and asks if they need something. I will describe him as a beautiful man with a ripped athletic, body long hair ECT. I will use all the clichés from the covers of romance books to make him seem more attractive. Hopefully this will spark off some interest between them but this is a player decision so I will not force it too much. They will describe the man they are looking for to the half elven druid and he will lead them back to the very place they left behind the first time. He will be there waiting for them because Am’uldur will have been sending him dreams about her coming after him. It will withhold all of its special abilities while fighting the Paladin because of its special bond to her. By the way it is a human bane wounding two bladed sword +2 if that tells you anything.

They will fight but the Elf only has like 7 Hp because he is a 3rd level Sorcerer but his AC with Shield and Armor spells along with his Dex give him about a 23, not to easy to hit. Once they kill him and return to the temple they will find it sacked because the Elf had sent the Bandits and Gnolls after the Paladin thinking she would be there. The fallen Paladin and the fallen Cleric of course survived and have gone on ahead to Merrent and will take over the leadership of the church there until the rest of the order comes back form the policing action in the northern portion of the kingdom. While nothing will be said openly about the young Paladin and the Cleric betraying and deserting their stations while the temple was under siege there will be very nasty rumors floating around and that will cause some tension I am sure.


This I hope will start the ball rolling for the Paladins long slow slide to the darkside. I would like hearing some suggestions of what to do with the Cleric and any suggestions to make this a little more personal for the characters. Because Like I said before the more a player gets into it the better it will be for the campaign. I will keep you posted on how things turn out.

Till later.
Jester.