Need Help: Monstrous Monk (Thri-Kreen)

[Ibrin]

Okay, I'm trying to create an NPC monk for our campaign world and source book - www.aldenminor.com

I want to do a Thri-Kreen monk. I'm completely lost on how the different abilities work together or stack. The TK entry in Savage Species says that a TK gets four claw attacks at +3. So:

How many attacks would a 1st level monk get, and what would the plusses be?

How would Flurry of Blows play into this?

How would Multiattack, Multidexterity and Multiweapon fighting effect this? And how would those attacks progress with levels?

How does fighting with a weapon in two hands effect this? Can this NPC get a couple (or more attacks) with two hands, and then fight defensively or parry with a weapon (say a quarterstaff) in the other two? Could they do this with two quarterstaffs and double the defensive bonus?

 

[mikebr99]

You either choose to fight as a monk, or use it's natural weapons... not both.

A monk’s attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may even make unarmed strikes with her hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed.

Mike​

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[Camarath]

Is this a 3.0 or a 3.5 question?

 

[Sejs]

1) Read the FAQ over on the WotC site. There is a section that deals with mixing natural weapon attacks with other attacks. In essence, you can get your natural weapon attacks when you make the full attack action - your natural weapons are automatically considdered secondary; -5 to hit and 1/2 strength mod to damage.

2) No, you can't flurry with natural weapons. Natural weapons are neither unarmed attacks (and hence don't follow the monk unarmed damage progression), nor special monk weapons.

3) No, you cannot take your normal attacks, and fight defensivly/parry. You do either one, but not both. A character with multiple limbs still has the same ammount of actions to take in a round (unless stated otherwise in the creature description). No, two quarterstaves wouldn't double the bonus, again because of not getting additional actions - the character takes the listed action and recieves the listed bonus.

4) The Multiattack and Multiweapon Fighting feats would serve to reduce some of the penalty recieved for using both your normal attacks and your natural attacks at the same time. Multidexterity wouldn't affect the situation in combat, but it would let you do things like pick a lock while holding a crossbow trained on some guy, splice two sets of rope at the same time, or draw a map on one sheet of paper while writing up instructions for what to do with the dimentional archway at the end of the dungeon once you get there on a second paper.


It would also let you juggle in new and interesting ways. Handy at parties.

 

[sledged]

Okay, I'm trying to create an NPC monk for our campaign world and source book - www.aldenminor.com

I want to do a Thri-Kreen monk. I'm completely lost on how the different abilities work together or stack. The TK entry in Savage Species says that a TK gets four claw attacks at +3. So:

How many attacks would a 1st level monk get, and what would the plusses be?

If I read the FAQ correctly and based on the little info presented in the expanded PsiHB about Thri-Kreen, Under 3.5 it should work like this:

One unarmed strike, four claws (-5 and half str bonus damage), and one bite (-5 and half str bonus damage)
or
Four claws, one bite (-5 and half str bonus damage)

How would Flurry of Blows play into this?

Two unarmed strikes (-2), four claws (-7 and half str bonus damage), and one bite (-7 and half str bonus damage)
or
Four claws, one bite (-5 and half str bonus damage)

How would Multiattack, Multidexterity and Multiweapon fighting effect this? And how would those attacks progress with levels?

With Multiattack:

One unarmed strike, four claws (-2 and half str bonus damage), and one bite (-2 and half str bonus damage)
or
Four claws, one bite (-2 and half str bonus damage)

Flurry of Blows with Multiattack:

Two unarmed strikes (-2), four claws (-4 and half str bonus damage), and one bite (-4 and half str bonus damage)
or
Four claws, one bite (-2 and half str bonus damage)

With Multiweapon fighting:

One unarmed strike (-2), three unarmed strikes (-2 half str bonus damage), one claw (-7 and half str bonus damage), and one bite (-7 and half str bonus damage)
or
Four claws, one bite (-5 and half str bonus damage)

Flurry of Blows with Multiweapon fighting:

Two unarmed strikes (-4), three unarmed strikes (-4 half str bonus damage), one claw (-9 and half str bonus damage), and one bite (-9 and half str bonus damage)
or
Four claws, one bite (-5 and half str bonus damage)

with Multiweapon fighting and multiattack:

One unarmed strike (-2), three unarmed strikes (-2 half str bonus damage), one claw (-4 and half str bonus damage), and one bite (-4 and half str bonus damage)
or
Four claws, one bite (-2 and half str bonus damage)

Flurry of Blows with Multiweapon fighting and multiattack:

Two unarmed strike (-4), three unarmed strikes (-4 half str bonus damage), one claw (-6 and half str bonus damage), and one bite (-6 and half str bonus damage)
or
Four claws, one bite (-2 and half str bonus damage)

How does fighting with a weapon in two hands effect this?

This is where it gets even more complicated, because it depends if it's a special monk weapon or not. I'll save it for later.

Can this NPC get a couple (or more attacks) with two hands, and then fight defensively or parry with a weapon (say a quarterstaff) in the other two? Could they do this with two quarterstaffs and double the defensive bonus?

Fighting defensively applies from the beginning of your turn to the beginning of the next turn. The -4 penalty applies to all attacks, including attacks of opportunity until the beginning of your next turn.

 

[Knight Otu]

Okay, I'm trying to create an NPC monk for our campaign world and source book - www.aldenminor.com

That character is supposed to be in an OGL/d20 product, if I understand you correctly? Then you might want to reconsider using a thri-kreen, as they are not in the SRD. I am not a lawyer and you might be able to do so, but you might want to ask someone better versed in that.

 

[Ibrin]

Thanks for all the detail

Okay, the one thing I'm getting, that I didn't understand is that natural attacks and unarmed attacks are not the same thing, even though you might be striking with a claw.

I'm thinking that making a Monk out of this wouldn't necessarily be that great. It would probably be better to just make a straight fighter and use the extra feats for the multi-xxx feats.

Now, if I'm just a fighter, and I have the multi-xxx feats, what can I do about fighting defensively with two of my attacks?

 

[Camarath]

If I read the FAQ correctly and based on the little info presented in the expanded PsiHB about Thri-Kreen, Under 3.5 it should work like this

I believe you are wrong. The rules clearly state that when combine attacks with natural and manufactured weapons "any natural weapons the creature also uses are considered secondary natural attacks". Nothing limits the number of secondary natural attacks one may make when also attacking with manufactured indeed since "attacks" is plural one can not assume that the limit is one. Also since attacks with natural weapons are not unarmed strikes or attacks with speacial monk weapons one can not attack with them in the same Full Attack Action in which one uses Flurry of Blows because "When using flurry of blows, a monk may attack only with unarmed strikes or with special monk weapons.".

Thus IMO the Thri-Kreen attack options (when using only natural weapons and Unamred Strikes) are as follows

1. Flurry of Blows with no natural weapon attacks

2. Unarmed Strikes (based on BAB) with 1 Bite attack and 4 Claw attacks (all at -5 or -2 with Multiattack)

3. 4 Claw attacks (at full bonus) and 1 Bite attack (at -5)

SRD

"Some creatures combine attacks with natural and manufactured weapons when they make a full attack. When they do so, the manufactured weapon attack is considered the primary attack unless the creature’s description indicates otherwise and any natural weapons the creature also uses are considered secondary natural attacks. These secondary attacks do not interfere with the primary attack as attacking with an off-hand weapon does, but they take the usual -5 penalty (or -2 with the Multiattack feat) for such attacks, even if the natural weapon used is normally the creature’s primary natural weapon."

 

[Arkhandus]

THRI-KREEN ARE NOT OGC.

Just thought you might need to see it in bold in case you missed it from the other posters. Thri-Kreen are not in the 3.0 SRD nor the 3.5 SRD. Only Wizards of the Coast, Paizo/Dragon/Dungeon/Polyhedron, and athas.org are allowed to use Thri-Kreen legally, as far as I know, in products or OGC materials. And of those, only WotC can freely produce products with Thri-Kreen, the other two sources need permission, if they can even print anything with Thri-Kreen at all.

 

[Ibrin]

Yes, I saw the original post, and I saw your ALL CAPS. Thanks. There just wasn't anything to discuss in the point.