Need help with Implements

[shinigamiza]

Okay, I've been looking for someone already asking this question for a while but have been unable to find it.

In my little group that I'm DMing (It's my first time ever playing 4th edition, 2 of my players seem to be rather expierienced ) I have a player playing a sorcerer. The question has come up if Nimble Blade grants him a +1 bonus to hit for his attack rolls with powers (I.e. spells) that he is using it as an implement for.

I as a DM have made a preliminary ruling that it doesn't matter how nimble your blade is when your not swinging it. I.e. how the heck does being able to nimbly swing your blade make you more accurate with your magic spells? it doesn't.

I have 2 questions. First concerns implements as a whole.

It is my understanding that 'in game' using an implement is more or less channeling your power through that. Is this a correct understanding?

Second question concerns the above situation. Do implements get the bonuses of melee feats? Things such as Nimble Blade for example. If so, will someone point out specificly where it says they do, if not will someone point out where? As I indicated earlier, I erred on the side of logic for the time stating that it's nice that he can swing his blade quickly/accurately, but he's not swinging it to cast that spell and if he were it'd be the same as me punching air.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

The answer is that the official 4e FAQ says "yes" if you use a weapon as an implement then you can gain the advantage of feats that work with the weapon. So Weapon Expertise, Nimble Blade, etc etc etc. The proficiency bonus for the weapon doesn't count however.

The one thing you want to look for is how the various feats stack. You can only gain one bonus of each type at a time, so several feats that each give a "feat bonus" for instance won't stack. Then note that many feats (and other things) simply give a "bonus" and that is untyped and will stack with anything. For example Weapon Expertise bonus is untyped. I don't know about Nimble Blade, that one could be either way, but you can look it up.

Overall this is kind of a weird situation and frankly the whole mess of rules related to weapons as implements is illogical, fiddly, and basically a nightmare to figure out. If you have players tweaking around with it get used to asking questions. You also may want to consider asking them on the official D&D boards since you will find they get answered faster (though I won't say the answers are better and most threads turn into flame wars pretty quick).

Hope that helps. The good part is you only have to figure it out once since they are all static bonuses. Getting a DDI subscription and using Character Builder can help too. It isn't always right either, but it does usually do a pretty decent job. You can even d/l a version of CB that works up to third level for free.

 

[Mahali]

The answer is that the official 4e FAQ says "yes" if you use a weapon as an implement then you can gain the advantage of feats that work with the weapon. So Weapon Expertise, Nimble Blade, etc etc etc. The proficiency bonus for the weapon doesn't count however.

This is not correct. The FAQ says "gain the extra damage from feats like Weapon Focus".

You can't automatically extend that to all feats. Those that don't like the FAQ ruling or just like classic arguments will point out that logical fallacy.

 

[Flipguarder]

I went to the store every week for a year. On the 32nd week it was robbed. Logically that means every 32nd week it will be robbed. An exception in no way demonstrates a pattern or rule.