Need help with Military stuff

I don't really know Nexus D20, so I'll use D20 Modern as a common frame of reference.

Class-wise and for game purposes, probably not much difference between basic trainee graduates between services, but here's some real world background. Make of it what you will as far as translating to game statistics/mechanics (if you want to go this in depth).

There is less of a difference between the branches basic trainings today, than there was in past years - but there is still a difference.

Army and Marine basic, as far as combat skills, are more or less equal.

Air Force and Navy, as far as combat skills, are more or less equal (but there are differences).

However, Air Force/Navy are not equal to Army/Marines right out of basic - though they are closer today, there is still a significant difference.

I would think that Air Force and Navy basic training are going to be mostly comparable as far as physical and combat skills go (education on branch history, customes and courtesies, uniform wear, etc., will obviously be different between the two - but they are probably quite similar physically - though I'm not absolutely certain about the Navy, just making an educated guess). However, Navy basic training would have the added element of basic ship board skills (what to do in general quarters, how to fight a fire, seal a leak, get out of a flooding compartment, etc.). Air Force basic training includes a 1 or 2 week section "in the field" (though not to the same extent as Marine or Army), where trainees learn how to set up a tent city, training with and performing chem warfare drills (donning and wearing chem gear, performing tasks while wearing chem gear, and decon procedures). Air Force basic training provides only very basic hand to hand combat (about what you'd get in a civilian self-defense class). Until the mid 2000's, Air Force basic training didn't include any hand-to-hand training...none. Arms training is also very basic. Air Force basic training would only include a basic course in how to clean and operate an M-16, along with firing only about 100 rounds (aproximately 50 for practice, 50 for qualifying) - basically a 1 day class with the first half devoted to how to take apart, clean, and put together an M-16 and including basic instruction in how to aim, fire, and basic range safety; followed by half a day of shooting and then cleaning the weapons. And that's it. The only addition to basic Air Force arms training in the last few decades (also added in the mid 2000's, in response to changes in the war environment due to 9/11) is the addition of firing some of those rounds while wearing a gas mask (for both practice and qualification). Unless ones specific career field includes more combat training (security forces, law enforcement, etc.), most Air Force personel will only shoot again maybe once every one or two years (for qualification, basically a repeat of the one day course from basic training - firing about 100 rounds). Although not a lot of combat or arms training, it's still more than what the Air Force had in basic training prior to 9/11. After 9/11, Air Force leaders realized there really wasn't any such thing as a "frontline" anymore. Due to the nature of modern warfare (with most engagements consisting of guerilla warfare), anyone in a specific theatre or AOR (Area of Responsibility), is in harms way.

By comparison, though I don't know exact numbers or information, the Army and Marines have much more involved hand-to-hand combat and arms training, starting with having an individual weapon issued to each trainee as early as the first week of training. This training extends throughout the training period, over multiple days and weeks, and probably results in firing more like a thousand rounds (or more) throughout the training period.

As far as physical training (push-ups, sit-ups, running, obstacle course, etc.), all of the branches are much more similar now than they have ever been in the past. Yes, in the past, Air Force basic physical training was considered a country club compared to the Army and Marines. However, over the last couple of decades, this has slowly changed to where they are more similar today (though the Army and Marines still do considerably more). For example, as late as 1990's, the Air Force did not have regular organized PT (physical training) outside of basic training (unlike the Army and Marines - again I don't know for sure about the Navy, but I doubt they did either). One simply exercised on your own in order to pass an annual physical fitness test - performed on an exercise cycle! (In the 1980's and earlier, it was a mile and a half run once a year, that had to be finished in less than 20 minutes - yes, you can almost walk a mile and a half in that time!) Today, during basic training, the Air Force does daily exercises (push-ups, sit-ups, etc.), with a daily formation run of probably 1.5 to 2 miles. Regular active duty Air Force units (outside of basic training) are now required to have organized unit PT three times a week (more like the Army and Marines have always been - this can vary between different types of physical exercise, from organized running and calisthenics to occasional fun days like playing a game of soccer or somesuch), with a yearly scored test involving timed push-ups, sit-ups, and a 1.5 mile run (for a passing score, wich varies by age, one needs to be able to perform approximately 50 push-ups in 1 minute, 50 sit-ups in 1 minute, and complete 1.5 miles in about a 7 to 8 minute/mile pace, and also have a waste measurement within a certain range - though there have been some recent changes making the test significantly more difficult - though I don't know the specifics as I'm now retired:D).

However, though similar levels of physical conditioning, I'm certain that the Army and Marines still do significantly more running over the course of basic training than Air Force and Navy, with the Marines probably doing even more than the Army.

As far as MOS's, the different branches use different systems. The Army and Marines both use MOS's (which stands for Military Occupational Specialty), the Air Force uses AFSC's (Air Force Specialty Codes), and the Navy uses Ratings. In the end though, they all basically mean the same thing.

In general, the Army and Marines are more combat oriented, across the board, than are the Navy and Air Force (in this context I'm only talking about physical combat, not naval or air combat) - and the Air Force and Navy are more technically oriented, across the board, than are the Army and Marines. But, all branches have serious combat specialties, as well as all branches have serious tech specialties. In general, consider anyone in the Army or Marines, regardless of MOS, as capable of fulfilling a basic infantry role. Navy and Air Force, not so much.

In my opinion and in D20 Modern game terms (but necessarily the way they're actually portrayed in D20 Modern):
*enlisted basic training only, Officer Training is a very different animal.








Common to all US Military Basic Training Graduates (regardless of branch) - (in addition to basic knowledge education such as how pay works, how leave works, financial education, dog tag issuance, medical inprocessing and vaccinations, etc.)
  • Knowledge - Military Customs and Courtesies, and General Knowledge (Uniform Code of Military Justice-UCMJ, Law of Armed Conflict-LOAC, how and when to salute, wear of the uniform of their specific branch, rank structure of their specific branch, Military history or their specific branch, what to do during military ceremonies and events like Reveille or Retreat, how to march in formation and formation commands [attention, parade rest, about face,...],etc.)
Army and Marine Basic Training Graduates - (10 week Basic Training for Army at one of four locations: Fort Benning, Fort Jackson, Fort Leonard Wood, or Fort Sill for Army - 13 week Basic Training for Marines at Paris Island or San Diego)
  • Basic Vehicle Operation (HMMWV or Humvee, M35 deuce-and-a-half)
  • Navigate Skill (Trained)
  • First Aid (what's called Self Aid and Buddy Care in the military) - essentially the Treat Injury skill (trained) minus the Surgery and Treat Disease portions.
  • Chem Warfare Training (able to function in both combat and with regular tasks while wearing an NBC Suit with minimal or reduced penalty - I can tell you from experience, it's easier to function wearing body armor, than it is wearing an NBC Suit!)
  • Combat Martial Arts Feat
  • Defensive Martial Arts Feat
  • Melee Weapon Proficiency (Combat Knife)
  • Personal Firearms Proficiency (M-16, M-9 Barretta, and Thrown Grenades)
  • Exotic Firearms Proficiency (M-203 Grenade Launcher, SAW-Squad Automatic Weapon, M-2 .50 Cal machine gun, and the M-30 or M-120 Mortar)
  • Advanced Firearms Proficiency (Auto-Fire Proficient)
  • Weapon Focus Feats (M-16, Combat Martial Arts, and Defensive Martial Arts)
  • Body Armor (essentially the Armor Proficiency Feat (Medium) - Light-Duty vest, Tactical Vest; and Armor Proficiency Feat (Heavy) - Special Response Vest and Forced Entry Unit)
Upon completion of the above, Army trainee graduates go on to AIT (Advanced Individual Training), where they learn their specific MOS(whether Infantry, Cook, or Tank Mechanic, etc.). All Marine trainee graduates go on to additional infantry training (two months for those with the actual Infantry MOS; one month for non-infantry MOS's, then on to their actual MOS training - whether cook, mechanic, etc.) For Soldiers and Marines with the actual Infantry MOS, I'd add an additional Weapon Focus Feat to a previously learned weapon, plus proficiency with more weapons such as personal anti-tank weapons (LAWS rocket) and basic explosives training.







Navy Basic Training Graduates - (8 week basic training at Great Lakes Naval Station)
  • First Aid (what's called Self Aid and Buddy Care in the military) - essentially the Treat Injury skill (trained) minus the Surgery and Treat Disease portions.
  • Basic Seamanship (damage control, firefighting, survival at sea, naval vessel identification, etc.)
  • Chem Warfare Training (able to function in both combat and with regular tasks while wearing an NBC Suit with minimal or reduced penalty)
  • Personal Firearms Proficiency (M-9 Barretta, and Mossberg 500 Shotgun - Navy recruits are no longer taught the M-16 in basic training, though they may learn it later at another location if applicable to their specific career field or rating)
Upon completion of the above, Navy trainee graduates go on to their specific career field or rating training (whether cook, aircraft maintenance, administration, etc.)







Air Force Basic Training Graduate - (8 week basic training at Lackland AFB)
  • First Aid (what's called Self Aid and Buddy Care in the military) - essentially the Treat Injury skill (trained) minus the Surgery and Treat Disease portions.
  • Chem Warfare Training (able to function in both combat and with regular tasks while wearing an NBC Suit with minimal or reduced penalty)
  • Combat Martial Arts Feat
  • Defensive Martial Arts Feat
  • Personal Firearms Proficiency (M-16 only)
  • Body Armor (essentially the Armor Proficiency Feat (Medium) - Light-Duty vest, Tactical Vest; and Armor Proficiency Feat (Heavy) - Special Response Vest and Forced Entry Unit)
Upon completion of the above, Air Force trainee graduates then go on to Technical School where they learn their specific AFSC (whether cook, admin, security forces, or aircraft mechanic, etc.). Flying personel (pilots, enlisted aircrew, etc.) would also learn survival, navigation, and SERE training (Survive, Evade, Resist, and Escape), and would learn other weapons such as M-9, M-203, Shotgun, etc. based on career field.


After all of that, "Combat" types then go on to learn even more stuff. Combat-wise, you have (incrementally from tough to absolute bad ass):

  • Basic Infantry or Marine (Air Force Security Forces may be included here also)
  • Advanced Combat Units (usually Special Forces: Army Rangers, Army Green Berets, Marine Force Recon, Air Force Special Tactics, Air Force Pararescue, and Navy Seals)
  • Black Units (Army Delta, Navy Seal Team 1, Air Force 24th Special Tactics Squadron)
Tech-wise, the military is very highly specialized (though not as bad as it used to be during the Cold War). For example, take Air force aircraft maintenance. Maintainers are split up between specific aircrafts. Just because one knows how to fix a B-52, does not mean that you can also repair an F-16 (and vice-versa). Also, maintenance on specific aircraft are broken up into even more specialties; such as Engines, Avionics, Structural Repair, Hydraulics, etc. However, there are those that through personal initiative or just aquired experience, learn other aspects of their assigned aircraft platform, and may even learn other aircraft as they progress through a full 20+ year career. (For example: I started out as an Instrument Specialist on B-52's and KC-135's. Instruments was a sub-specialty within Avionics, but no longer exists as most Avionics sub-specialties have today been combined with others. I then cross-trained into Comm, Nav, and Radar specialties. Halfway through my career - 10 years - I was assigned to a helicopter unit in Korea, and had to learn a new aircraft: MH-53J Pave Low. A few years later I was assigned to another helicopter unit in the states working on yet another different aircraft: HH-60G Pave Hawks. I was able to cross train to the point where I was an absolute expert at my original career field - Avionics - and was fairly proficient with all other specialties on the aircraft. But that was at about my 15 year mark When I retired, I was at a point where given enough time and all the necessary tech data, I could probably fix any aircraft - but I was an expert only on the ones I had worked.)



Officers go to a seperate Officer Training School, and do not attend basic training with enlisted members. There are Combat trained officers and heavily Tech trained officers - but with the exception of Pilots, Ship Officers, Tank Commanders, and Army/Marine company grade officers, (etc.), most officers careers are administrative in nature rather than combat oriented.
 
Last edited:

log in or register to remove this ad

What I was thinking was having a level 5 Soldier archetype, then level 10 for specialties and MOS type stuff. Then have spec ops at level 15.

I was wondering if there needed to be more then one Soldier Archetype to cover different service branches. Also should Officer be a specialty? Basically should Officer be level 10 or should it be just a little higher then a basic soldier?

As I said before, I don't really know Nexus D20, so I'll use D20 Modern as a common frame of reference.

This all depends upon the conceit you're using for characters.

D&D and D20 Modern work on the idea that characters are HERO'S. Skill and ability wise they're just a soldier, just like any of their 500,000 fellow soldiers, but they're also something more...they're a bonafide HERO. If this is the conceit you're using, then a standard basic infantry soldier can be level 1 (though IMO, technically by RAW, you can't make a realistic infantry soldier as a 1st level character in D20 Modern).

I don't think you need different soldier archetypes for each branch, one will do. But, there are a few different skills that different branches and special ops units may have. Maybe something like backgrounds can be used to add the small differences between them.

Officers aren't necessarily anymore trained or competent than their soldiers as far as personal combat skills, and in many cases can be far inferior compared to a basic enlisted soldier. Realistically, a 1st level officer makes just as much sense as a 1st level soldier. A 2nd Lieutenant in the Army, Navy, and Air Force (Ensign in the Navy) is known as a "butter bar"...and honestly, most don't know a damn thing. The major diference between a slick sleeve private and a 2nd Lieutenant, is the private actually understands that he doesn't know anything.:D (partly joking...but only partly:o) It's very likely that the majority of 2nd Lt.'s troops are significantly older than him (or her). The most important thing a Lieutenant should remember is always, ALWAYS, ALWAYS listen to your NCO's (especially senior NCO's). They'll keep you out of trouble, and probably keep you alive. Gamewise, the difference between and officer and his troops would be a college degree in something (could be Phys Ed or Underwater Basket Weaving;)), and a Leadership skill or feat.

Special Ops should be a bit higher in level as there is always at least a time-in-service and MOS/AFSC/Rating prerequisite to even apply, and likely a minimum rank requirement (you're never going to see a slick sleeve private as a Green Beret!...unless they got in serious trouble...:angel:). However, I don't think they necessarily need to be a significantly higher level (5th about does it for me). Yes, as part of training for special operation units, they do learn advanced skills over and above what the common soldier knows, as well as training for different types of tactics and missions, but the real difference is much more than just what they know. There was a recent study (link here) that showed a very real, physiological difference when faced with an extremely stressful situation: a special operators adrenaline level returns to normal much quicker than a basic soldier, allowing them to handle such situations much easier and bounce back quicker afterwards. So, as far as levels and skills/feats, I'd make a special operator at least 5th level, give them the added weapon proficiencies and skills/feats appropriate to the specific special ops training (BUDS for Seals, etc.), and a significant Fortitude Save bonus (or just a Constitution bonus, though I think the Fortitude Save bonus would be much more realistic).

Though I'm not really sure how all this actually stacks up with D20 Modern or Nexus D20, but it is realistic.
 
Last edited:

The Air Force is generally less rank conscious than the other branches. While their ranks are similar, with everyone above E-5 as some kind of Sergeant, you can generally get away with calling them all Sir. The Air Force uses this as basing of respect. Call an NCO Sir in other branches, though, and you're likely to get an earfull about how he "works for a living."

Yeah, the the Air Force can be a bit less rank conscious than other branches, but for the most part we do use them. E-5's and above can all be called "Sergeant" or "Sarge" with no problem - whether a Staff Sergeant, Technical Sergeant, etc. If you actually called someone by their full title in an other than formal situation, they'd probably think you're either joking or a kiss-ass. The only exception are Chief Master Sergeants (E-9's). They are always called by either their full title or just "Chief", even if you're an officer.* Call a Chief just a "Sergeant", and you'll definitely hear about it. Very few Air Force NCO's like being addressed as "Sir" (unless their chewing somebody's ass at the time), but it does happen. However, I've told many an airman the same thing as above: "Don't call me Sir, I work for a living!":D But that is less likely to happen in the Air Force.

*(That's the one part of Stargate: SG1 that I disliked. No self-respecting Chief Master Sergeant would ever let themselves be addressed as "Walter" - whether the one addressing you was a civilian, a Colonel, or a 4-star General. Wouldn't Happen...EVER!:rant:)
 

and the ARmy, Marines and Air Foce all have sergents, just to add to the information.

By the way, The Air Force had the best chow halls of any branch when I was in!

You know, some of the best military chow I ever had was from a Marine cook with a field kitchen...just saying.:p
 

...Is there a game that does this very well that I could model my game after?

I've never come across any game that got it completely right. Maybe it's just not possible...? I honestly don't know. Or maybe I just haven't come across it (so many games...so little time:(). But I'll enjoy looking over yours when you're done.:D
 


Sure. You can call anyone in the army above E-5, Sergeant and get awaybwithnit, except a Sergeant Major or Command Sergeant Major, whom you have to address by full title.
<SNIP>.
I dare you to call a First Sergeant a "Sergeant"!
If you are lucky he/she will let you call them "Top". And A CSM can be addressed as Sergeant Major in personal conversation ("Yes, Sergeant Major.") but is always announced as Command Sergeant Major, much as a Doctor is always announced as Doctor Surname even if you call them Doc or Bob or Jill in casual conversation.

Also ranks across services don't always relate in exacting measure. An E-4 in the Army is a SPC (Specialist) or CPL (Corporal) - A CPL is an NCO, a SPC is not. Marine E-4s are ALWAYS CPLs, therefore all Marine E-4s are NCOs Air Force E-4 used to be Sergeants now they are Senior Airmen again the first were NCOs, the second is not. Navy E-4 are PEtty Officers 3rd Class, to everyone but the Navy they are NCOs, the Sailors will tell you that they are REALLY Petty Officers, and only the lowliest of Seamen will take an order from them.

And the officer rank versus experience debate from an old Soldier's angle. Question: "What's the difference between a PFC and a 2nd Lt.?"
Answer: "A PFC has been promoted. . . Twice."
 


It's factually true. There is no such animal as you describe and I can't for the life of me figure out what "field minded" would mean. There is, however, field-grade officers. Being a field-grade officer has nothing to do with your branch/occupational series and is purely related to rank.

General Grade > Field Grade > Company Grade
 
Last edited:

It's factually true. There is no such animal as you describe and I can't for the life of me figure out what "field minded" would mean. There is, however, field-grade officers. Being a field-grade officer has nothing to do with your branch/occupational series and is purely related to rank.

General Grade > Field Grade > Company Grade
I misread your meaning, what I thought you meant was that once you became a field grade officer that branch was no longer a consideration (ie a Colonel could serve in any branch designation, regardless of that branch by virtue of his/her rank.)
Going back and re-reading it (after your rightful destruction of my post) , I realize that you meant a field-grade officer is so by virtue of rank, which of course is correct. Company grade being 2nd Lieutenant, 1st Lieutenant, Captain; Field Grade being Major, Lt. Colonel and Colonel and then General officers.
 

Remove ads

Top