Need help with wording of a wish

[Mark]

I suppose if there has been no reasearch in your world on what a wish can do, then it is meta-gaming... That seems kind of un-wizardly though.

That's the point, though, isn't it? There isn't just a single wish spell. There are as many as people can think to phrase, and therefore no definitive source from which to research potential results. Perhaps a high roll that beats the DC gets you a reference to one that is nearly the same. Maybe a close DC roll gets you a somewhat similar reference. Maybe a low roll (and remember, the player doesn't see the die roll) and you find the scroll that describes a nearly identical situation written up by a wizard who, unbeknownst to his wizard school was a colossal fraud (maybe disappearing under mysterious circumstances at some point as a result of a failed spell of his own!). It's all part of the risk and part of the game.

What about Bardic Knowlege? Would you allow the bard to remember the story of "Kyochius the White, who wished for...?"

Bardic knowledge might help to give some perspective, but being that it is suitable for a different set of parameters, it might be best to stick with Knowledge (arcane). Even so, it's still would require a DC and is not infallible.

Given the great many permutations a wish can take on, and depending on how far-reaching someone might attempt to push the parameters of a wish spell, the DC (no matter which type of check you use) could be very high, indeed.

Please stop hijacking this thread. Both of you. You may start your own thread to continue this conversation. I just want ideas about how to word a wish, and the "Talk to your DM" idea, as well as the "Trust your DM" idea, while having merit, have now been said.

You won't offend me if you contact a moderator and ask that they split our somewhat tangential discussion off into its own thread. Sometimes new, related discussions spring from others. It's only natural, not a "hijack" as you say. How much time do you have left to find someone to word your wish for you? Will you be using Knowledge (arcane) or Bardic Knowledge rolls to avoid the pitfalls of a wish-twisting by DM-fiat?

 

[Sarellion]

I encountered wishes two times in campaigns. One time I got severely disappointed after wording a very reasonable wish with every possible loophole closed. The other time was on the DM´s seat where players could wish for someting and it came to a big conflict in the party, not with me.

My personal opinion is that wishes are not worth it if you go outside the established text.

Your DM could get annoyed at you for trying to close every possible gap and you could get annoyed at your DM for getting what you wished for.
So talking to him in advance is better than conflict, try to find a wording that sounds nice after establishing what you want.

Example: I wish that harmful magics I use won´t hurt myself or those I consider to be my friends.

Gets rid of the loophole that all good people are your friends or stuff like that. If your DM is on the wishmaster trip nothing will save you. And it seems to me that he is indeed on this trip after reading about the other player.

 

[wuyanei]

Instead of wishing for some permanent and highly unpredictable change your Eldritch blast ability, perhaps you would be better served by wishing for several items grants the wearer Spell Immunity [your (and only your) Eldritch blast]. That way, even if it doesn't work out, you and your allies can still simply refuse to wear the item (unless the items are cursed, in which case you are doomed ).

For example, wish for (assuming a four PC party) : "A set of four rings, three of brass and one of silver. Any wearer of one of the three brass rings in this set of four rings gains immunity to any Eldritch Blast cast by the wearer of the single silver ring in this set of four rings, as if the wearer of the brass ring were under a Spell Immunity spell." (based on the commander 's ring / purple dragon rings in Magic of Faerun)

Before you make the wish, take you DM aside and explain to him why your wish is not asking for too much:

Each ring is basically a magical item granting a continual but very limited Spell Immunity spell to the wearer. Spell Immunity is a 4th level spell, so the base cost of each ring would be about 4 * 7 * 2000 = 56000 gp !!

However, most of the power of spell immunity comes from the freedom to choose *any* single spell to be immune to. Argue that limiting the Immunity to Eldritch Blast takes away most of the power of the Spell Immunity spell -- perhaps worth a halving of the price:
Base Price 28000 gp.

Furthermore, the wearer is not actually immune to eldritch blasts. They are only immune to eldritch blasts by cast by one person -- the wearer of the silver ring. Argue that this should be worth a quartering of the price (as you are still vulnerable to any eldritch blast cast by any foe): Base Price 7000 gp -- about in line with a Ring of Counterspells (8000 gp), and I'd still say it's a bit overpriced at that.

The silver ring takes up a ring slot without actually granting you any ability *at all*... it's just a identifying key that the brass rings are attuned to. Argue that its enchantment cost is subsumed into enchanting the other three rings (you make four rings as a set, one silver, three brass. Each extra brass ring costs an extra 7000 gp).

So the total base price for the set would be 21000 gp, which is within the 25000 gp limit for creating non-magical items with the wish spell. The 'arguements' can certainly be improved upon, but I think a Ring of Counterspells is a fair benchmark for such an item. You could even improve the rings later on, adding telepathic bond or some other ability -- make the rings the 'signature items' of your party or something.

Personally, I'd suggest that you refuse the wish, and simply make the items yourself. Coerced wishes (planar binded djinn, gated solars), or wishes granted by evil creatures (efreeti, balors) *never* fully work out IMC, no matter how carefully you word them.

IMC, if you want a really good wish, you take the XP hit and cast it yourself. If you wish for too much, the wish just... fizzles, with no bad consequences to you. If somebody else casts a wish for you, they are allowed to interpret the wish however they like, regardless of your desires (or even your exact wording!). If the wish is granted as a reward, the wish granter probably won't cheat you... but you never know for sure. If you cast a wish from an object (such as from a Ring of Three Wishes), the object interprets your wish in the most literal manner possible, following the path of least resistance regardless of your true intent. The object simply has no true comprehension of your desires, so you should keep your wish as simple and direct as possible.

Finally, you could simply buy a Wand of Spell Immunity for 21000 gp, and use it regularly on your party's melee fighters. 70 min / 420 gp -- cheap at the price, and no possibility of DM chicanery. Thats what I would do, anyways.