Need Opinions on a Game Situation

Magestrike

First Post
I've debated on whether to ask this, but I feel I need others opinions to make sure I'm not to involved to look at this right. This is a situation that occured in our game tonight, with a little background to start off.

altered homebrew 2nd edition campaign; started as 0 level people and are now 3rd level PCs due to some adventuring; goal of DM was to have party of local heroes, which we have become; party is CG dwarven fighter(player has 15 years exp) coming into his own as a fighter, CG human sorcerer(12 years)(variation from 3rd DM added) still discovering his power; CG halfling bard(15 years) who is the life of the party and a CG elven cleric/ranger(5 years but mostly with the same DM, her husband)

The halfling bard couldnt make it tonight, so we went on without him with his permission.

Heres the situation. The elf was in one room destroying some artifact/magic item thing that she needed to destroy while the dwarf and human were poking around in another room. While poking around, the human came across a pouch with some coinage and an key in it and the dwarf found a small black box with a lock on it. Once they got back together from searching, it was obviously discovered that one had a key and the other had a box with a lock. Not being completely experienced when it comes to locks or traps and whatnot, (which is how we have been playing the characters all along), the human figures he would go ahead and pop open the box to see what is rattling around inside. When he does, like all good nasty boxes with locks, he trips a small needle trap that pricks his finger. Saving throw is called for, and he sadly fails. The DM describes that he immediately feels a very bad tingly feeling in his hand that starts to rise up his arm. It starts off tingly but when it starts to creep up his arm, he is in immense pain, like something is literally crawling in his arm. The DM gave us one option, and both players thought od the same thing at the same time.

So, the dwarf, lops off the human's arm right below the elbow. Drastic but sadly the only option available to us. DM told us after ward that pass saving throw, lose HPs permanently. Fail and in 3 rounds, death unless something stops the poison. So, luckily, we chose right and in the process opened up a great roleplaying opportunity.

Heres where the situation arises. The elf, hearing the scream, comes running in from the other room and sees the hand on the ground and whatnot. She demands an answer as to what went on, until she hears the human thanking the dwarf for doing what had to be done to save his life. Looking over at the box, which is now open, the dwarf sees a small deck of cards. Not wanting anything to do with whatever was in the box, having had to lop off his friends hand due to it, he grabs them and vows to destroy them, whatever they are. The elf pleads for the dwarf to leave the cards behind. The reason being, the player playing the elf knew it was a Deck of Many Things and wanted to draw from it. The dwarf refuses, swearing to banish the evil that the box held. After a lot of heated arguements between the players, the dwarf relented and said that after thinking about it, he took them out of his bag and left them in the box, not wanting to even touch them. No amount of explaining from the dwarven player, or the human player could convince the elven player to not mess with the cards, so we gave up, left the cards and told the DM we were leaving the complex. The last comment from the two of them to the elf was "You know what the box nearly did to your friend here. It is your choice whether or not to play with the fire in that damned box. We just wont be a party to it" And we left the room and the went down the hallway.

The elven player, even after the DM himself said, "Although I dont agree with it, the deck is there if you wish to pull from it. However, I will enforce whatever affect you draw." The elven player was fine with this and drew. Of course a bad event happened. She pulled the Void card, and immediately lost her soul or some such. She accepted it and started thinking of another character to play. We came back in after a while to see her body just sitting there on the floor with basically no soul. This is where we left it.

Heres my questions. Should she be allowed to draw up another character or be forced to play that one? Obviously he fellow party members would have to go on some sort of quest to try to find a solution. Was the dwarf right in the beginning when he was going to keep the deck and try to find a way to destoy it? Should he have stuck to his guns or was his compromise(which wasnt figured out without some thought) acceptable, basically putting the choice in the elven players hands? Should the elven player's knowledge of the Deck and insistence that she be allowed to draw from it overall bad roleplaying? Any other thoughts?

Like I said, I wasnt sure whether to post this or not, but the more I thought about it, the more I really needed some other opinions. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.
 

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Destroying an artifact at third level and you pick up another one in the other room...

I've tried to think of something useful I can say but all I can think of is, "Are you sure you want to be playing in this group?"
 

Magestrike said:

Heres my questions. Should she be allowed to draw up another character

Yes.

or be forced to play that one?

Forcing people to do what they don't want to do is generally a bad idea.

You should already have a policy for entering new PCs into your campaign. A good policy is to start them equal to or one level below the lowest current level in the party. That way if someone gets bored of playing their PC, they can make a new one, but they'll pay a price for it.
 

My group's policy is that all new PCs start at half XP of the highest XP in the group. This isn't that bad in 3E, where it puts you on average 1 to 1.5 levels below the rest of the group.

No idea how you'd set that up for a previous edition.

I agree that a player should be able to change characters at any point, but also given that they have a responsibility to figure out a way to get their current PC out of the way without breaking game continuity and to aid in introducing their new PC (shoving this burden on your DM is just rude, which is my feelings as a DM -I've got enough work as it is).

That said, there are some interesting roleplay possibilities with the character as it stands, though in my own games I never use anything that takes or destroys a soul...

My roleplay angle as a DM would place the body as an empty husk and tell the player what they experience as the soul, now locked away in some void somewhere. Giving them the choice to roleplay an escape attempt or let it pass.

At 3rd level, there isn't much they can do. But again, at third level, what the heck is the group doing around these kinds of magic items.

Either they seriously went somewhere they don't belong despite the DM warning them off and somehow lived this far, or the DM is running Monty Hall.

Now I know we're not supposed to say "That kind of play style is wrong"...

But frankly... That kind of play is just wrong...
 
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Good opinions all around. Thanks.

We had been working for a local town who had heard about "the heroes from the neighboring town". They had needed help due to some sort of "demon looking wolf things" that had been attacking their logging camp. The town was your basic small fishing/logging village. Thats why we were involved, because we were the closest thing to adventurers in the area.

The main bad guy in this part of the campaign had taken up residence in an old ruined wizards tower in the mountains, and the Deck was one of the items he had come across in it. The other magic item in the place was basically just a small blackorb that pulsed negative energy that gave good aligned people a bad feeling, but possibly signifying something worse to come.

I think the DM was really building a good storyline with these series of missions, and was working toward his goal of developing some good local heroes. I just think it was bad the way the elven player now most likely will get to play a different character because of the stupid decision to use the deck, which was done because the player knew it was actually the Deck. If something good had been drawn from it, the player wouldnt have wanted to retire that character because they have too many magic items or are too experienced to play with this group. Why then should she be able to automatically roll up a new one because something bad happened because of her actions.

Some brief info on the party. We have played together a long time. The majority of the players have known each other since 3rd grade, and we are almost 30 now. The elven player was added about 5 years ago, due to her marrying the DM. Most of the time she is a good player, but has a knack for not always "playing her character". The rest of us try to explain why certain things wouldnt happen, or try to point out a differing opinion on her actions, but a lot of the times she ignores us.

It boils down to this, the reason Im asking. Ive alwasy gamed with the point of view that it should be fun and enjoyable for all playing. Its getting to the point for me that it isnt fun anymore. These kinda actions are taking away from my fun experience, and I know a few of the other players have ill feelings as well. Its just a hard situation because the particular player is married to the DM, and the whole situation might go bad quickly.

I do thank all of you for your opinions, as they did help.

Mage
 

Re: ....


It boils down to this, the reason Im asking. Ive alwasy gamed with the point of view that it should be fun and enjoyable for all playing. Its getting to the point for me that it isnt fun anymore. These kinda actions are taking away from my fun experience, and I know a few of the other players have ill feelings as well. Its just a hard situation because the particular player is married to the DM, and the whole situation might go bad quickly.

Mage [/B]


You argument is rather odd. Following the logical reductio ad absurdum, if someone's character was polymorphed into a log at 3rd level, and it would probably be quite some time before there was any mobility in the future, would you play the log?

That is what you are asking the player to do.

I generally find that I am attached enough to my characters that I don't relish having to make new ones.

buzzard
 

Re: Re: ....

buzzard said:

I generally find that I am attached enough to my characters that I don't relish having to make new ones.

True enough. There's a stigma attached to dying that's hard to shake off, even when you know it's "only a game". In our 15th level campaign, true resurrection is freely available, and yet self-preservation is still a pretty strong motivating factor (as far as I can tell).

I think of it as counting coup, in reverse.
 

Re: ....

Magestrike said:
It boils down to this, the reason Im asking. Ive alwasy gamed with the point of view that it should be fun and enjoyable for all playing. Its getting to the point for me that it isnt fun anymore. These kinda actions are taking away from my fun experience, and I know a few of the other players have ill feelings as well. Its just a hard situation because the particular player is married to the DM, and the whole situation might go bad quickly.

If it's really getting to you, consider starting a new game where you're the DM. It's not that hard, really.
 

Re: Re: Re: ....

Magestrike, I get the impression that your problem isn't really with this situation -- that you feel there's DM favoritism toward his wife, or that you don't like the elf's player, or something like that. Otherwise, your suggestion that she play an essentially unplayable character is bizarre.

My understanding is that a character without a soul is catatonic. Do you really want to be saddled with a catatonic character for several sessions? Should she, whenever her turn comes up in battle, say, "I drool some more"? Or will she stay in the complex, slowly starving to death, and be forced to roleplay the starving to death in split-scenes? (DM: "Okay, you two finally finish killing off the troll, and can begin searching the room. Meanwhile, elf, back in the complex where they left you three days ago, it's still dark, and you're vaguely aware that you're hungry, and you're vaguely aware that another rat has joined the first one in eating your foot. What do you do?" Elf: "I drool some more.")

My suggestion would be this: she should create a temporary character who can help the party on a quest to find the elf's soul. Once the elf is restored to playability, she can resume the elf and again be a local hero character. And I'd also suggest you deal with the underlying issues. The best way to deal with them might be to accept them: I doubt you'll get the DM to stop treating his wife in a way that you consider favoritism, and I doubt that accusing him of such is going to improve your friendship with him. But that's just a guess from the sidelines.


Meanwhile, Hong, great sigline quote! ;)

Daniel
 

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I wasnt suggesting that she play the catatonic character. My suggestion was, just like the suggestion made byPielorinho, that that character pretty much stay in the town where we started and she play a temporary character. The next adventure would of course be to attempt to find some way of regaining her soul, thus making it possible for her to play the elf again. Maybe play her father or brother or something, who joins us on the quest. Of course, she didnt want to do this. She wanted to play a Harper I believe, because in her own words "she wanted a powerful character to take out the dwarf for not letting her have the Deck in the first place." Comments like this ruin the game for me, and the others as well. Im sorry, it just does.

There is an underlying animosity in the group about that DM/player relationship, not just with me but with everyone. Most of the time it doesnt come up as a problem, because the rest of us have talked with the DM about it, and he holds his ground. This of course gets her mad, and the game slows down for like an hour while she pouts. Im not sure what happens after we leave, but it probably isnt pretty either. I think, and the rest of the group had discussed this, the problem lies in the fact that the rest of us like role playing our characters and she likes to power game hers. If she isnt "winning and beating the DM/other players" or if she doesnt have" the ass kicker in the party", then she isnt having fun.

I think it is time for another chat with the DM from the group. One of our players is expecting to get activated for the war in Iraq sometime in March or April, and the rest of us would hate to lose all this great role playing time before he does. If you ever played with him, you would understand. Hes the halfling, and picture a kender without the thieving. And he has a pig. Some funny stuff has happened with this guy so far.

Thank you for all the thoughts on this matter. I pretty much got the answers and opinions that I thought I would, so the ENWorld community comes through again.

Good gaming to all and thanks again.
 
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