Need some help from Philosophers.

[Mistah J]

Hi everyone.

I've got a BBEG in mind for my current campaign. In brief, he's a disciple of an archfiend of torment. He's also of what one could call "Eastern" or "Asian" descent.

What I would like to do is come up with a solid, somewhat believable philosophy that would lead someone to worship and revere pain and suffering like it is a good thing. Something that has elements of eastern culture in it to help contrast the party's general 'western' make-up.

Sadly, I am a History major and so my understanding of philosophies is just not up to the task.

I'll point out that I've already considered things like sadism and masochism and feel that those are better suited to motivate his important henchmen and lieutenant-type followers.

I guess I'm just looking for some reasons beyond "I like pain cause I'm evil!" or "My family died, so everyone should suffer like me" and so on. I'd like to show my players an actual belief system that they can at least discuss before they disagree.

Too much?

 

[DreadPirateMurphy]

Look at the Wikipedia entry Mortification of the flesh.

 

[Thasmodious]

The cornerstone of Buddhism is a response to the suffering that is at the heart of the human condition. The Four Noble Truths are:

1. All of life is suffering
2. Attachment is the root of suffering
3. Detachment is the means to end suffering
4. This is the Way (the Eightfold Path)

Sects of Buddhism explore this in many, many different ways. For example, some monks practice renunciation, complete denial of earthly pleasures (no sex, no "good" food, no alcohol, etc). A sect devoted to reaching detachment (enlightenment) through pain is certainly a good angle. It exists already in a number of practices, but not to extreme ends (think more of the flagellating Christian monks). There may be sects devoted entirely to the idea of extreme torment as a means of release from attachment, but I'm not aware of those sects. It is, however, a good idea for what you are looking for, I think. It's not masochism, there is no sexual element, it is not about the hedonistic enjoyment of pain, it is entirely the opposite. Only by understanding the worst of suffering can you find release from the cycle of suffering that is the nature of earthly life.

If you like this angle and want some Eastern flavor when speaking of it, the Four Noble Truths have "names" of a sort:

The truth of suffering - Dukka
The origin of suffering (attachment, desire, craving) - Samudaya
Detachment, cessation of desire - Nirodha
The Way (the Eightfold Path) - Mārga

Many traditions of Buddhism view the Four Noble Truths and the Path in many different ways, so variations of these basics are certainly a possibility.

 

[Andor]

He might also believe that suffering is the source of strength and power. This actually a pretty defensible position in D&D where ones personal power (Level) is often directly relatable to the suffering one has both inflicted and recieved (XP earned in combat.) Heck even the good gods kind of take this position except that they try to alleviate suffering for the masses but expect their champions to 'take one for the team.' Your baddy might even argue that in trying to bring suffering to the people he will be doing them more good than those that seek to spare them and thus keep them weak.

 

[steenan]

Human life, by itself, means nothing. One has to face pain to prove his worth. There is no courage until you fight mightier enemy. There is no motivation until you need to choose between saving a loved person and reaching your goal. There is no strength until you are wounded and exhausted. There is no willpower until you are broken and humiliated.

The BBEG knows it. He does not avoid suffering - he takes it all, he burns in it and becomes purified. The same he does to the world. It's not for control nor power that he conquers and destroys; it's not for some freudian complexes and wounded past. It is because he wants to give everybody a chance to really exist, to be someone. Most will be crushed and destroyed by the pain he brings, but some will become strong and sharp as steel.

Just imagine how the heroes react when they face him for the final battle, to avenge everything he took from them, and hear something like "So I was right from the beginning. The pain is the way. I forged you with suffering, from the dust you were into fine steel, I created heroes from the worthless mob. Thank you that you came here."

 

[roguerouge]

BOOK
Did you ever read the works of Shan Yu?

SIMON
Shan Yu, the psychotic dictator?

BOOK
Yep. Fancied himself quite the warrior-poet. Wrote volumes on war, torture... the limits of human endurance.

SIMON
(mildly)
That's nice.

BOOK
He said... "Live with a man forty years. Share his house, his meals,
speak on every subject. Then tie him up and hold him over the volcano's
edge, and on that day, you will finally meet the man."

 

[pawsplay]

There is a facet of Buddhism sometimes called left-hand Buddhism. The underlying premise is this: all attachment leads to suffering. A particularly enlighted student may be able to free himself more quickly from attachment by acting in ways opposite to his attachments. Thus, a Buddhist monk might eat human flesh or perform a sex ritual. Ex:

Vamachara - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Although his central motivation remains enlightenment and compassion, he does not allow anything to stand between him and ultimate truth. It is said that masters of this path can literally eat dung and consider it equal to eating a feast. Keep in mind: left-hand path Buddhism is condidered very dangerous, even for many students who excel at other practices.

To adapt this concept to a game, maybe this villain has decided that avoidance of pain is his greatest hindrance.

Another idea is a protector-spirit. In some forms of Buddhism, as well as Shinto, powerful spirits are associated with people, places and things. In Buddhism, spirits are somtimes "Tamed" through special rituals that bind them to a certain spiritual practice. Thereafter, the spirit is "fed" through devotions and in turn uses its spiritual power to help others achieve enlightenment. Villain idea: he's decided it's much more efficient to use sorcery to extract life force from vicitmis instead of performing slow and demanding rituals. Heck, maybe he uses traditional methods, but he has taught his followers to use sacrifices so they can be empowered with minimal training.

Shinto is a Japanese religion. The kami are basically spirits or gods of various types. Shinto priests are knowledgeable about how to honor, placate, and defend against spirits. Villain idea: obviously, drawing power from a particularly vicious or destructive kami could lead a corrupt human into evil.

Another idea: in some versions of Hindu and Buddhism, people with evil spirits are believed to face scourging by entities like Kali, and may risk being reincarnated as demons rather than humans. Villain idea one: the villain likes the idea of "scourging" and has embraced it, feeling that softness helps no one achieve their full potential. Villain idea two: the villain is or is in allience with a reincarnted demon. As a result of his karma, the demon has suffered greatly and wishes to make the world suffer, too.

 

[Wild Gazebo]

Birth is pain.

Death is pain.

It would be an abjection of nature to live life without pain.

The only true path to purity of self, and spirit, is through the discovery, exploration, and acceptance of pain.

To do otherwise is to deny life and live an empty shell of an exisistance.


<please for my sanity: nobody actually believe this tripe>

 

[Voadam]

Another route, though not so far eastern:

Justice is punishing the wicked.

All humanity is sinful and evil at base.

Pain is humanity's just desert and according to the will of heaven.

 

[Lidgar]

Somewhere between pain and death (or lapse of consciousness) lies nirvana. To experience nirvana means to embrace pain to its fullest, to reach the limits of physical endurance, to walk the knife's edge, to lie down at the intersection between shadow and light. At that point one can experience oneness with life and death simultaneously, and therefore have command over both (i.e., a state of godhood).