Need to sub some low level monsters with higher level ones

[NewJeffCT]

I'm debating using the Kingmaker adventure path for 4E. The catch is, my group has already been playing 4E for a while and have characters that are at 6th level. By the time they complete the current adventure, they'll be level 7 or 8.

Kingmaker is a Pathfinder AP and is designed to start with the PCs exploring & taming a "wild" region. The initial adventures consist of tribes of kobolds, mites (small evil fey) and some low level bandits. I like that it allows the players freedom to choose much of their path and what challenges they'll face in order.

The bandits are easy enough to change - just put some higher level bandits, maybe some monstrous thug support (ogres, giants, etc).

However, I'm looking for some suggestions for changing up the mites & kobolds tribes so I can challenge a level 8-10 party. Neither tribe/group should be irredeemably evil (so, not a group of demons, undead, etc)

I think I can put together a decent group of orcs to challenge a party of that level. I'd have liked to have used hobgoblins, but they seem problematic, as the DDI I have only has two higher level hobgoblins/elites. Anything else? (I suppose I can use orcs & just sub in the hobgoblin racial ability for the orc one...)

Thanks for any advice/input.

 

[S'mon]

How about troglodytes instead of kobolds? They're about the right level. Possibly gnolls, or even ogres.

I'd use different fey for the mites - maybe dryads? Or Quicklings might work very well, the Quickling Runner is a level 9 skirmisher.

 

[Herschel]

Quicklings and Trogs or Gnolls would be my suggestion also. You could always boost the kobolds too, if you would rather.

 

[fba827]

okay, i have no familarty with the scenario you're talking about, but based on the info presented, how about ... bullywugs (frog people) myconids (fungus people) werewolves/some other were-animal, a group of wild/savage elves or shifters

 

[NewJeffCT]

How about troglodytes instead of kobolds? They're about the right level. Possibly gnolls, or even ogres.

I'd use different fey for the mites - maybe dryads? Or Quicklings might work very well, the Quickling Runner is a level 9 skirmisher.

good suggestion on quicklings. how about spriggans as well? It says I must spread some XP around before giving it to S'mon again...

 

[IanB]

Part of what makes it a bit of a hard choice is the 'flavor' involved in the encounters, kobolds being sort of nasty but in a (in this case) relatively cute and harmless way, and mites being sort of nasty in a horrible but still fairly harmless way. Quicklings strike me as a little too clever to easily sub in for mites (and IIRC there's an encounter with a quickling later on that you may want to preserve as something more special, YMMV.) Trogs are just much too unpleasant to contemplate as potential player allies due to the stink of having them around if nothing else. The small size seems like it would be valuable to preserve for flavor reasons.

What I would probably go with in your shoes:

- Spriggans instead of mites (there are spriggans later on in the path as well, but they're pretty replaceable with higher level evil fey). They strike me as less 'clever' than quicklings and thus probably a more suitable replacement. They run up to level 8ish so just about right, and they're still small size for tasty flavor.

- Just keep the kobolds, and try to use the higher level ones, they come in around 5th or so. You can always give them 'pets' to up the XP value of fights if you think it is likely your players will just fight the kobolds instead of siding with them. The disguised gnome/kobold sorcerer loses something if you change the races involved I think. None of the other options really feel plausible as something the players might ally with or might want to ally with the players.

 

[NewJeffCT]

How about troglodytes instead of kobolds? They're about the right level. Possibly gnolls, or even ogres.

I'd use different fey for the mites - maybe dryads? Or Quicklings might work very well, the Quickling Runner is a level 9 skirmisher.

hmm, just tried to look up troglodytes on DDI and they weren't there. Grrr... NEVER MIND - I HAD "FEY" on as a filter, so I only got the one FEY trog. What an idiot I am...

Did I miss them somewhere? I even went with TROG on the search function and only "blightborn troglodyte" came up. Which book are they in?

 

[IanB]

I should add, if you need higher level kobolds you can fairly trivially reskin the higher heroic halfling and gnome monsters into kobolds, just by replacing their racial powers with shifty.

 

[Zaran]

How about some goblin worg riders? The Worgs are about that level . You might have to up the Goblin riders or make them minions.

 

[Mentat55]

As mentioned before, orcs, ogres, and gnolls would fit well. Bugbears would fit in near the level 8-10 range, maybe slightly on the low side, but pretty easy to bump them up a few levels.

If you want to get more exotic, thri-kreen (potentially a previously unknown insectoid race living in the wilds), duergar slavers, and minotaurs might work.