Needs quite a bit of Dming help!!!

[finnie]

So, I have been playing DnD for about 2 years( Some of you are probably like wow thats nothing, Lol) now. I have decided to do a bit of dming myself to get some experience under my belt. So where the problem comes in is this. I have no idea about how i should go about handeling this. So I have in my party. A elf ranger, human dragon shaman, Human rogue duskblade, a human Druid, and a Human Paladin. Now, I told them that there are no really big limits I put on making characters. So, my problem is this. The paladin, as a paladin in his back story gave up religion, and bases his beliefs off of his own philosophical thought, and that is how he governs his moral and justice, and all the wonderful goodness of being a lawful good character. Though the problem is. He really hasnt been acting like a lawful good character. He at one point during it, to subdue an evil sorceress. He threw down his weapons, and charged her. Grappling her, and pinning her. He then went on to punch her until she was unconscious. Then ties her up, and forces his philosophies upon her until she starts to change. He had to do this for at least 3 months before she would start to change alignment.

The other incident was when they were in this town, and the mayor decided that a change was needed. He said that there was to be a new law system in town. Then a bone devil jumped into the area, and attacked the party. During the fight, the paladin instructed the ranger, to shoot an arrow at the mayor, who was still there watching the fight. Now, the mayor was not evil in any means. he was at that time being possessed by a mindflayer. So, i did not expect them to know that.

Now, I have players who are complaining that he doesnt seem all that paladin like, and they are even more upset that he is going to be exalted and has started taking exalted feats, which they feel he doesnt yet qualify for.

So i am asking for your guy's opinions on the matter.

 

[billd91]

I don't see anything unpaladinlike about subduing an evil sorcereress and then spend months proselytizing to convert her.

As far as shooting at the mayor, is this a homemade adventure or a published one? Is it possible he has knowledge he, as a player, isn't supposed to have? Or did he think that, perhaps, the mayor was responsible for the appearance of the devil?

 

[Twichyboy]

I'd say just let him know that what he is doing is un-paladin like and thus if he continues he may be stripped of his powers.

He may (probably will) defend his actions as good intent or not necessarily bad, or for the greater good.

If and when he does this let him know that Paladins are supposed to do good for the greater good, as in for a Paladin the ends never justify the means for a paladin, he may kill evil creatures, but it is not his duty to force his views upon anyone.

I would say that him knocking out non lethally and interrogating a evil sorcerer isn't bad as long as hes not torturing her, but generally should turn her into the authorities, as his lawful alignment dictates.

Edit: And getting an evil individual to turn to good is usually a very good thing, provided the individual chooses this and is not tortured.

 

[pemerton]

I don't see anything very problematic in what you've described. What is the objection of the other players to what the paladin PC has done?

Also, I assume that the adventure with the devil, mayor and mind-flayer is The Speaker in Dreams. Possession-type scenarios are always a bit tricky, moreso when you have an alignment-constrained PC like a paladin. My advice would be to cut the player some slack. The mayor has just declared martial law, and is apparently authorising enforcement of that law by a devil. Shooting an arrow doesn't seem that outrageous a response for a paladin to suggest.

 

[DumbPaladin]

The main thing I wish to point out is that Exalted feats are one of the ONLY group of feats (outside of Leadership) that are specifically delineated as needing DM approval or input. Most feats are simply the player's choice to choose. Not so with Exalted feats.

You are the DM. Tell your player he is not acting exalted. This is a WHOLE different level beyond "good". Shooting and endangering civilian mayors when you don't know what is going on is NOT exalted behavior. (The evil sorceress ... well, yah, honestly some deities could have seen that as good behavior.)

If he wants to take Exalted feats, tell him he must behave with an exalted outlook first, and tell him to pick other feats in the meantime. If you've already let him pick an Exalted feat and you regret it, you need to have a talk with him and let him know, and allow him to pick another feat.

Also, does this character suffer any of the downsides for not being a member of a church? For instance, when he requests assistance from temples or religious people in the area, shouldn't they shun him, or be less-than-inclined to help?

 

[Hand of Evil]

Ask the player to define thier code, just take a look at the boy scout oath for an idea and an example, there are others but it is the one I use.

Now, you as the DM, define what you see as "evil" in your world. This should align with your evil gods.

Also see my sig for DM Advice.



Boy Scout Oath, Law, Motto and Slogan and the Outdoor Code
[sblock]

Boy Scout Oath or Promise

On my honor, I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.​

---------------------------------------------------------
Note that the Boy Scout Oath has traditionally been considered to have three promises. Those three promises are delineated by the semicolons in the Oath, which divide it into three clauses. The three promises of the Scout Oath are, therefore:

• Duty to God and country,
• Duty to other people, and
• Duty to self

DUTY TO GOD AND COUNTRY: Your family and religious leaders teach you to know and serve God. By following these teachings, you do your duty to God.

Men and women of the past worked to make America great, and many gave their lives for their country. By being a good family member and a good citizen, by working for your country's good and obeying its laws, you do your duty to your country. Obeying the Scout Law means living by its 12 points.

DUTY TO OTHER PEOPLE: Many people need help. A cheery smile and a helping hand make life easier for others. By doing a Good Turn daily and helping when you're needed, you prove yourself a Scout and do your part to make this a better world.

DUTY TO SELF: Keeping yourself physically strong means taking care of your body. Eat the right foods and build your strength. Staying mentally awake means learn all you can, be curious, and ask questions. Being morally straight means to live your life with honesty, to be clean in your speech and actions, and to be a person of strong character.



Boy Scout Law
A Scout is:

• Trustworthy,
• Loyal,
• Helpful,
• Friendly,
• Courteous,
• Kind,
• Obedient,
• Cheerful,
• Thrifty,
• Brave,
• Clean,
• and Reverent.


Boy Scout Motto
Be Prepared!


Boy Scout Slogan
Do a Good Turn Daily!


The Outdoor Code
As an American, I will do my best to -

• Be clean in my outdoor manners
• Be careful with fire
• Be considerate in the outdoors, and
• Be conservation minded.
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[finnie]

Thanks everyone. This will hopefully help me to better dm for my campaign.

 

[Numlock]

Finnie, also remember this. Being unsure about your DMing and actively trying to improve it, are signs of good DM's.

 

[the Jester]

If there is any doubt in your mind about whether he qualifies for exalted status, he does not.

Don't let him take exalted feats unless he acts like a good guy.

You should prolly talk about what qualifies as LG in your campaign with him too.

 

[Mort]

The key to playing (and DMing) a paladin (especially if exalted feats are in play) is FULL agreement between the DM and the player as to what lawful good is. There should be an in depth discussion with the player as to what it means to be lawful good in your campaign (with the player having input, it is after all his character).

Further, IMO a paladin never falls from grace accidentally or unknowingly. Anytime there is even a hint of straying from the path there should be a clear warning for the player (not the always annoying "are you sure?" but a clear "in my view this is an evil/chaotic act and will lead you astray/ make you fall").