Negative Levels/Level Drain Variant

[Liquidsabre]

Here's a negative level/level drain variant I'm looking at using for my next campaign. Obviously I snagged the idea of substituting 2 points of Con for a negative level, but I found technical problems in the rules with the application of ability drain so I created: temporary ability drain. Here's the text for my variant below:

All instances (spells, creature attacks, or special abilities) that inflict negative levels or level drain are to be replaced by temporary CON drain instead. This is inflicted at the rate of 2 points of temporary CON drain per negative level.

A character suffering from temporary CON drain may have all of it removed via the restoration spell (as it does in the core rules for all negative levels). At the end of a 24-hour period, if a character still possesses temporary CON drain they receive a Fortitude saving throw for every 2-points of temporary CON drain. On a successful save, the 2-points of temporary CON drain are removed. On a failed save, the 2-points of temporary CON drain reverts to 2-points of temporary ability damage. This ability damage may be healed naturally (at the rate of 1 ability point/day) or removed by a lesser restoration spell.

Let me know if anyone finds anything wrong with using this or can share experiences with using a similar variant in a campaign.

The way I have it worked up right now it eleminates the rather inconvenient potential for loss-of-level mechanic that I never cared for (negative level drain) but remains a lethal mechanic as temporary CON drain in combat. Also the way I have it worked up, both lesser restoration and restoration are useful spells for dealing with this effect. Including the ability to heal naturally from the damage over the course of several days.

Cheers!

 

[ValhallaGH]

Why not just have it be Con damage?

Alternatively it could be a Con penalty for 24 hours, at which point you make a save and it either goes away or becomes Con damage.

Note that Ability Damage is temporary and that Ability Drain is permanent, excepting magical healing.

Interestingly enough, this makes level draining monsters equally deadly across all levels. Instead of taking one hit to kill the first level fighter and ten to kill the twentieth level wizard, a vampire under these rules would take three to five hits to kill the first level fighter and three to five hits to kill the twentieth level wizard (assuming constitutions of 9 to 20), ignoring the hp damage.

 

[WhatGravitas]

It turned out to have a bit less effective against most characters, but still strikes dread into them:

Energy Drain: When a character is affected by energy drain, she has a -1 penalty to all ability scores. These penalties are cumulative. After 24 hours, the character must make a Fortitude save against each drain, or the penalty is transformed into ability drain.

 

[Liquidsabre]

Why not just have it be Con damage?

Going with CON damage proved problematic as it could too easily be removed through natural healing or the 2nd level divine spell lesser restoration right away. The first 24 hours of the effect needed to be somewhat reminiscent of the difficulty to remove negative levels (part of the scary factor, at least for the characters in their immediate circumstances). Using a temporary CON drain, that can only be removed by magical means, for the first 24 hours achieves the immediate scariness that negative levels had provided but without the potential for loss of actual levels for lower level characters and characters without access to magical healing.

As you said, CON drain is permanent and I certainly didn't want to go that route either because after 24 hours I wanted the scary factor to go away gradually over time through natural healing or the use of a low level divine spell. That's why within the first 24 hours the CON drain can only be removed by magical means (if accesible) but afterwards it is either saved or reverts to CON damage which is easier for characters to deal with.

Alternatively it could be a Con penalty for 24 hours, at which point you make a save and it either goes away or becomes Con damage.

Using a CON penalty is also problematic because penalties do not stack with one another. So any effect that would deal a CON penalty would never be able to actually kill a character, so not very threatening.

Interestingly enough, this makes level draining monsters equally deadly across all levels. Instead of taking one hit to kill the first level fighter and ten to kill the twentieth level wizard, a vampire under these rules would take three to five hits to kill the first level fighter and three to five hits to kill the twentieth level wizard (assuming constitutions of 9 to 20), ignoring the hp damage.

The net effect being quite scary for lower level characters without long-lasting harm (or requiring magical healing), a serious resource drain (no pun intended heh) for our mid-level characters, and a depletion of magical resources for our higher level characters. While higher level characters possess great resources and the means to deal with the temporary CON drain, it remains a bit of a scary thing and that's something I think I like.

I'm a little worried though that with normal HP loss in combat that the loss of HPs due to CON reduction could prove too lethal.

Thanks for you input Val!

 

[el-remmen]

Instead of CON damage/drain, I used a variant using VILE damage

 

[Liquidsabre]

Thanks El! I'll have to take a closer look at Vile damage and, now that I think of it, Heroes of Horror taint rules and see if I like any of those for possible variants I'd like to use.

 

[Quartz]

Changing negative levels to CON damage massively advantages spellcasters over melee types. Switching to CON damage means that spellcasters don't lose spells. Remember too that melee types get significant proportions of their HP from their CON.

 

[Liquidsabre]

Keep in mind that melee types usually have alot more CON than the softer spellcaster types though. Sounds like it could balance out.

 

[ValhallaGH]

Using a CON penalty is also problematic because penalties do not stack with one another. So any effect that would deal a CON penalty would never be able to actually kill a character, so not very threatening.

What you talkin' about, Willis?
Make them untyped penalties. Bam! Done. They stack like crazy with everything.

As for the terror of level loss: meh. It's inconvenient. Get magically cured whenever is convenient during that first 24 hours (the restoration spell only takes 3 rounds to cast) and you have nothing to worry about. Make the save and you have nothing to worry about. The only worry comes if you fail that save; then you need to find a caster of Restoration within ten days or less or say goodbye to your character level.
Ability damage is in the same category except that there is no chance of permanent ability loss. It merely takes a few weeks (or a few spells) to recover.
Ability drain is just mean. From what I can tell, it was invented for the sole purpose of punishing people for rolling really good stat arrays. (If you're going to just take it away from the player then why let them roll their arrays at all?)

As for Con scores, most casters have a con of 10 to 16 and melee types have 12 to 18. A vampire under these rules takes away 4 points of con per hit. A minimum of three hits to kill a low-Con caster or warrior and a maximum of four hits to kill a tough caster or five hits to kill a tough warrior.
It don't balance out; it's equally lethal to everyone and, given the power of spells and the assumed balance of the rules, it is a bigger penalty to warriors than to casters.

 

[Quartz]

Keep in mind that melee types usually have alot more CON than the softer spellcaster types though. Sounds like it could balance out.

It doesn't balance, because the spellcasters don't lose spells, and the melee types are typically in the front line and are thus much more likely to get hit multiple times.