Negative Levels or permanent Con drain and Death

[Hypersmurf]

Can a spell with a target of "one creature" work on a dead body? Like, say, Restoration?

If someone is killed by being drained to 0 Con, then in theory, he can't be Raised. As soon as he comes back to life, his Con is still 0, and he dies again.

If someone is killed by Enervation giving more negative levels than he can handle, then in theory, he can't be Raised. "Assuming the subject survives, he regains lost levels after a number of hours etc etc". But he didn't survive; the negative levels don't go away; as soon as he's Raised, he has more negative levels than character levels, and he dies again.

With negative levels from Energy Drain or undead attacks, you have to make a Fort save 24 hours later to see if the negative levels become permanent. Is there any special treatment of Fort saves when you're dead?

-Hyp.

 

[hammymchamham]

I don't think so.... since

Raise Dead
Conjuration (Healing)
Level: Clr 5
Components: V, S, M, DF
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: Touch
Target: Dead creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None (see text)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

the spell makes a distenction here on the creature is dead where as

Restoration
Conjuration (Healing)
Level: Clr 4
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 3 rounds
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

this does not. But thats just my take on it

 

[melkoriii]

I would not count the draining as permanent after a raise dead because it was what killed you. Same with the Negative lvls. The negative lvls is easy as when you die all negative things are removed (Poison etc). When you’re raised you are one lvl less then your permanent lvl was. As you had died before the lvl drain was permanent you just lose the one lvl.

Just curious to why you keep trying to find flaws in the rules and not fix them with common sense for game play?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Well, see, that's the thing.

Hold Monster has a target of "one living creature". Same with Hypnotism and Horrid Wilting - they specify "living".

Unfortunately, in D&D, there are not two types of creature, there are at least three...

- Living Creatures
- Not-Living Creatures (Undead, Constructs, etc)
- Dead Creatures

Then we have a few different spell targets
- Creatures
- Living Creatures
- Dead Creatures
- Corpses

Now, does the target "creature" refer to things in all three categories... or only living and not-living?

-Hyp.

 

[Black Knight Irios]

If you are raised with any spell but, lets assume with raise dead, you are at lvl 1 and your CON is restored to 1, this is written in the spelldescription. For more details I recommend reading the chapter "Bringing back the dead" in the PHB and the spell descriptions of "Raise Dead", "Ressurrection", "Reincarnate" and "True Ressurrection".
OK the fact that you have only one CON point is really considerable, but lets assume you lose that point of CON before your CON is restored to one. But if your raise with True Ressurrection you won't have this problem because you won't lose a LVL for being dead.
But I am bit of confused after writing this text so don't go too hard on my text an me either.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The negative lvls is easy as when you die all negative things are removed (Poison etc).

Not "all negative things" at all.

"Normal poison and normal disease are cured, but magical diseases and curses are not undone."

I would say the Enervation is closer to "magical diseases and curses" than "normal poison and normal disease".

Just curious to why you keep trying to find flaws in the rules and not fix them with common sense for game play?

... because it's better than having a lengthy rules debate mid-session?

If I spot something I'm not sure about, I'd rather get it all straight before it crops up in-game.

-Hyp.

 

[hammymchamham]

Well lets see what happens

Willy the farmer was attacked by a wyrmling fang dragon (MoF) and his CON is drained to 0. Willy the Farmer is now dead.

John the Cleric comes along and says, hmmm, I'll try to use Restoration to give him some CON back, so he casts Restoration

Restoration
Conjuration (Healing)
Level: Clr 4
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 3 rounds
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)
Restoration dispels any magical effects reducing one of the subject’s ability scores. The spell also dispels negative energy levels and restores one experience level to a creature who has had a level drained. The drained level is restored only if the time since the creature lost the level is equal to or less than 1 day per caster level.
Restoration cures all temporary ability damage, and it restores all points permanently drained from a single ability score (caster’s choice if more than one is drained).
Restoration does not restore levels or Constitution points lost due to death.
Material Component: Worth 100 gp.

He uses Restoration, and no CON is restored. Willy is still dead

 

[Hypersmurf]

He uses Restoration, and no CON is restored. Willy is still dead

The Con points were not lost due to death, they were lost due to the Fang Dragon.

-Hyp.

 

[Black Knight Irios]

To your last question hypersmurf I would count everything as creature that moves on its own.
To affect a corpse you need a spell which targets either dead creatures or objects.

 

[hammymchamham]

The Con points were not lost due to death, they were lost due to the Fang Dragon.

-Hyp.

I would say that line is in reference to dieing due to losing CON. Can you find me something that says (or an example) of something losing CON points due to death?