Nerfing Animate Dead

[NPC]

Background
So my 9th level character (Rog2/Sor7) took Leadership as her feat and got a 7th level evil clerc of Shar (we're playing an evil campaign in the FR) as a cohort.

Our party lacks a true cleric, so I figured this guy would add some much needed healing/buffing support.

Then I read the animate dead spell and my powergaming instincts take over. After our party defeats two griffons, he animates them. BAM! Two pretty powerful skeletons. We defeat a gray render. WHAMO! Another powerful skeleton.

As far as I can tell this is all by the rules.

So now our party has three skeletons. They are great at soaking damage, dealing damage, and basically, stealing some of the other PC's' thunder. For example, the party wizard hasn't needed to cast as many spells, and our fighters lose less hit points per encounter. At the end of the day, my cohort cleric simply causes wounds to heal them.

All this seems good, but I can't help feeling like the game isn't as much fun anymore. The DM has increased the encounter level to take into consideration the skeletons, but all that's done is made combat encounters last longer.

I asked the group if they would like me to get rid of the skeletons, but they kind of like having the extra firepower. One suggestion was made to reduce the number of hit dice the animator can control.

So this leads me to my question . . .

Question
What have you guys to nerf animate dead? Prohibited it being used by players? Disallow evil clerics as PC's? Increase the cost? Make the material component impossible to find? Reduce by 1/2 the number HD controlled by the animator?

 

[Scion]

Let me see if I get the stats right for your skeleton griffons


Skeleton GRIFFON
Large Undead
Hit Dice: 7d12 (45.5 hp)
Initiative: +7
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 10 (–1 size, +3 Dex, +2 natural), touch 12, flat-footed 11
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+11
Attack: Bite +7 melee (2d6+4)
Full Attack: Bite +7 melee (2d6+4) and 2 claws +5 melee (1d6+2)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: none
Special Qualities: Immunity to Cold (Ex): Skeletons are not affected by cold.
Damage Reduction 5/Bludgeoning: Skeletons lack flesh or internal organs.
Saves: Fort +2, Ref +5, Will +5
Abilities: Str 18, Dex 17, Con -, Int -, Wis 10, Cha 1
Skills: none
Feats: improved initiative
Challenge Rating: 3
Treasure: None

This all looks right to me, two of these guys in a 9th level party should do almost nothing. They have no hp, no ac, no real abilities to speak of at all. What are these guys even doing? Sure against ranged attacks they are nice, they soak up a few attacks before being destroyed.

But anyone with a weapon that does decent damage at this level, or a bludgeoning weapon or even a cleric who decides to use them against you..

If the stats above are different than the ones you are useing let me know.

Edit: I even put 7*6.5 into the calculator.. I dont know how it came out wrong! lol

 

[Stalker0]

actually the griffon would have about 42 hp, AC of 14. But even so... that's still seems preety chump especially considering you spent 175 gp a piece on them.

Now if you want beef, I'd rather go with the zombies, then you'd still have AC 14 but 84 hp.... though it cost 350 then.

 

[Scion]

I dont know how the caluculator popped out the wrong number, that is just odd 45.5 is the correct hp.

But the ac is correct and it still does just about nothing for its level. One good fireball against the party will pretty much toast these two guys

 

[Scion]

Zombie GRIFFON
Large Undead
Hit Dice: 14d12+3 (94 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares), fly 80 ft. (clumsy)
Armor Class: 19 (–1 size, +1 Dex, +9 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 18
Base Attack/Grapple: +7/+16
Attack: Bite +12 melee (2d6+5)
Full Attack: Bite +12 melee (2d6+5) and 2 claws +8 melee (1d4+2)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: none
Special Qualities: Single Actions Only (Ex): Zombies have poor reflexes and can perform only a single move action or attack action each round. A zombie can move up to its speed and attack in the same round, but only if it attempts a charge
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +5, Will +9
Abilities: Str 20, Dex 13, Con -, Int -, Wis 10, Cha 1
Skills: Jump +8, Listen +6, Spot +10
Feats: toughness
Challenge Rating: 4


This guy is definately better in some ways, but worse in others. Lots more hp and a much better AC, but only partial actions. Plus, since this guy has so many hd you can use less creatures. 2 skeleton griffons full attacking for 3 attacks each vs this guys single attack isnt a hard comparison, but definately not the only one to take into account.

Definately a hard call. But the two skeleton griffons shouldnt make a huge difference in combat most of the time. Any area of effect damage spells just wipe them out, hitting ac 10 is a joke, and less than 50 hp at level 9+ is just asking for it even with a decent damage reduction.

 

[Scion]

I'm just having fun making skeletons now I am still waiting for the answer about whether or not the stats I posted are the ones that he uses and some more detail about what the griffons do in his group.


Skeletal GRAY RENDER
Large Undead
Hit Dice: 10d12 (65 hp)
Initiative: +5
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 12 (–1 size, +1 dex, +2 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 11
Base Attack/Grapple: +5/+15
Attack: Bite +10 melee (2d6+6)
Full Attack: Bite +10 melee (2d6+6); 2 claws +5 melee (1d6+3)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: none
Special Qualities: Immunity to Cold (Ex): Skeletons are not affected by cold.
Damage Reduction 5/Bludgeoning: Skeletons lack flesh or internal organs.
Saves: Fort +3, Ref +4, Will +7
Abilities: Str 23, Dex 12, Con -, Int -, Wis 10, Cha 1
Skills: none
Feats: improved initiative
Challenge Rating: 5


Edit: yep, missed the +1 to ac from dex, easy to miss things sometimes

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

you're missing a +1 dex bonus to AC in your gray render there...

AR

 

[Scion]

Hate to bump things from the ashes that are page 3, but since npc has pm's turned off and I would like to know what is up with this in his game I'll try this once Sorry all.

 

[Beholder Bob]

Nerfing animate dead. Naw - but imagine your groups suprise when an encounter w an evil priest takes them over & turns them against you folks.

On a slightly different note - I've altered undead a bit. Undead are only healed by cause x wounds if they have intelligence - Ghouls, ghasts, etc, ok, but not skeletons or zombies. I let these guys just fall apart (not able to be healed).

 

[Scion]

not even with cure construct type of spells? as that is what it sounds like you made them, something like a construct