Nerfs for Natural Spell

[JiffyPopTart]

How about dividing up the three phases of natural spell into separate feats...give each of the three feats a minor bene to make up for having to take so many feats.

Adapted Vocals: Regardless of the form the spellcaster takes, he is able to speak normally.

Somatic Casting: The spellcaster has learned to use subtle body language instead of a free hand to cast the somatic component of spells. This substitution only works when the form the spellcaster is in does not have hands dexterous enought to allow spellcasting. The DC to identify what spell the caster is casting is increased by +2 when using this feat due to the non-standard casting method.

Eschew Components: As per normal.

DS

 

[fba827]

I'd suggest the metamagic +1 route OR split it into two feats.

natural spell: works as the printed version but only for spells up to 3rd level.
greater natural spell: (prerequ natural spell). like natural spell, works on spell levels 4-9.

(that's just an untested off the top of my head idea.. haven't tried it or really thought it out much though )

 

[Moon-Lancer]

I like the two feat idea, But the metamagic makes me cringe. At that point your takeing a feat that balances with powerattack, and turning it into a feat thats as powerfull as a skill focus feat. At least thats how i see it. Think of it like this. They are not getting all the goodies of silent or still, if you were to make it a +2, they should beable to get thier full benifits of still and silent. Basicly its a feat to make a class feature work with another class feature. Be glad it wasent build into the class, insted of makeing a druid burn a feat.

 

[Li Shenron]

A mild variant of this is to make it +0. The downside is reduced to the fact that the Druid has to prepare each spell either with Natural spell (can be cast while wildshaped only) or without it (can be cast only when not wildshaped).

 

[frankthedm]

Drop the Feat. Allow returning to Normal form to be a swift action so the caster does not have to give up a turn to switch back to cast. The PHB 2 varient for the druid also does this.

 

[Zimbel16]

To start, this thread is assuming that Natural Spell is overpowered. Thus I don't need a ton of reasons why it isn't overpowered.

My gamers, however, are not big into powergaming, so even overpowered things aren't that worrisome. But I would like to keep the Druid from too outdistancing the rest of the party.

Three ideas:

1) Use the Shape Changing variant from PHB2 (which I have not seen yet.)

2) Make Natural Spell a metamagic feat, so all spells cast while wildshaped are +1 or +2 levels higher.

3) Allow one cast, and each spell after the first 'costs' one use of the shapechange ability.


I am open to comments about these, or other ideas. Thanks.

I'd tend to suggest that it's Wild Shape that's overpowered, and Natural spell just makes it that much better (since at mid-high levels, Druid spellcasting is also overpowered), but given your above assumption:

#1 should work reasonably well. Personally, I don't like it as much. I'd sugest reading it for flavor before deciding. I should also note that a Druid designed under the standard rules may be weaker under this varient at all but high levels (since it changes optimal attribute allocation).

#2 - the difficulty, as many above have stated, is that you'd need to prepare the spells ahead of time. One way around this would be instead of +1 spell levels, have each spell cast cost an extra spell of one level lower (or higher) (which is consumed to no effect). So casing Cure Moderate Wounds (LV 3) would use up both that spell and a selected 2nd (or higher) level spell.

#3) I like this approach, but if you're planning to play up through high levels, you're likely to have better success with limiting it to a straight 3x/day (or some other constant) instead of expending wildshape uses. The reason is that Wildshape uses are rare and valuable at low levels, but they are neither at high levels. If you want them to be able to cast more than 3 times / day, allow the selection of additonal feats that add another 3x/day (or thereabouts) each.

Other ideas:
A) Get rid of Natural Spell. It's not necessary to make a powerful Druid, particuarly in comparison with a standard front-liner.

B) Each time that the Druid is WildShaped, they may cast exactly 1 spell as if they had Natural Spell. You could allow addtional uses/wildshape with a feat (say +1/feat?).

C) Change Natural Spell so that any spells have their casting time extended like a Sorcerers' are with Metamagic (so standard -> Full Round; 1 full round -> 2 Full Rounds).

D) Change Natural Spell so that any spells have an increased duration casting time; that is Swift/Immediate -> standard, Standard -> 1 full round, 1 full round -> 2 full rounds. In this case, I'd probably no longer have it cost a feat (just make it part of Wild Shape), but your taste may vary.

 

[Storyteller01]

We gave it Silent Spell, Still Spell, and Eshue Materials as prereqs.

 

[Coredump]

First, thanks for some well thought out concepts.

Reading these, and letting them perculate (sp?) I have another idea.

I was wrestling between the +0 and +1 metamagic.... I liked that decisions and trade-offs were needed, but it also limited things a bit more than I thought necessary.

What about 'combining' the ideas? It is a +1 metamagic that will allow you to cast in *either* human or wildshaped form.

Memorize Entangle as a lvl 1 spell, only cast as human. Memorize Entangle in a lvl 2 slot, cast as either human or wildshaped animal.

Seem balanced?

 

[Notmousse]

While I still don't think it's overpowered I believe that allowing a spell to be cast in either form at a +1 spell level is most agreeable.

 

[Teydyn]

We handle it this way, with the Natural Spell feat you have 2 options:

1) Treat as Metamagic Feat and prepare with +1 Spell Level. (Castable in any form)

2) Cast in animal form without preparing ahead, but casting time is 1 minute per spell.