Never TPK'd

[NoOneofConsequence]

I've been playing and running rpgs of many ilks for over twenty years and it occurs to me that I have not ever had a TPK in a game I ran. In fact, I would consider it something of a personal failure if I ever did. My campaigns are about the players, not about my ability to drop a (drow ranger/great red wyrm/meteor) on the PCs heads.

However, it seems that for many DM's its a point of pride each time they achieve TPK. I don't get it - can't the DM just up the ante? TPK is just a matter of more or bigger bad guys, isn't it?


Anyway, two questions:
1. Are there any other non-TPK DM's out there?
2. If you are a TPK DM, what's the deal? Why? How does it work?

 

[Crothian]

Not only have I never caused a TPK, I've never had it happen to any game I've been in. I agree, if a TPK does ever happen then there was something seriously wrong with either the PCs of the DM. I had one almost happen, 3 out of 4 characters died and that's becasue they were stupid.

 

[Agamon]

I've only caused a TPK once in my 19 years, and I'm rather ashamed of it, but considering the details...

We were playing pretty late on a weekday night about 8 years ago. I all of a sudden felt very tired and run down, and announced that we should stop for the night. The players, one of them especially (Neil, by name), figured they were close to finishing the current adventure, which they were, and insisted we keep going.

A half-hour passes, and I'm really not feeling well. I insist once more that we quit, but everyone pressures me to finish. Rather preturbed, I concede.

The final battle was a cleric and her ogre minions. The party was about 5th level, and these were 2E rules. The baddies won initiative, and the cleric cast Hold Person on the 4 healthiest PCs, who all failed thier saving throws. The other 2 had a handful of hit points between them and didn't last the round.

Realizing I was becoming very sick, I simply said, "There, you're all dead. Can we quit now?"

To this day, I still remember the fever I suffered through as I tried to sleep the rest of that night. I was down and out with a pretty nasty flu bug for a few days.

One positive out it: Neil has passed the story on to new players, and everyone now knows one of my main rules: When the DM says it's time to quit, it's time to quit. No one argues the point with me anymore.

Other than that, I've never been responsible for killing an entire party. There have been times when they've made very bad choices and gotten themselves into some deep doodoo, but for the most part, I usually let them squirm, assuming the worst, and let them work their way out of the mess they've made.

 

[arwink]

Not only have I never caused a TPK, I've never had it happen to any game I've been in. I agree, if a TPK does ever happen then there was something seriously wrong with either the PCs of the DM. I had one almost happen, 3 out of 4 characters died and that's becasue they were stupid.

I've had one, from memory, and that was because I wasn't paying attention and the game was going downhill anyway. A week later, I gave up gaming for five months or so, so it was hardly my best time for DMing.

Even then, come to think of it, one character survived.

hmmm.

 

[Creamsteak]

I've had 4 or 5. Seems to happen when the players start trying to kill stuff they should know they can't. My players trust in the dice, to their own deathfall sometimes. I'm not one to say that "I TPK" but I'm one to say that my Party was killed. I don't feel responsible if I warned them.

Some examples of creatures that killed a party:

A Bronze Dragon (CR 4 over their level)
A Blue Dragon (CR 6 over their level)
6 Ogres (1st level characters)
Drowning Death (Naval Battle)
Cthulhu

That pretty much summarizes it, since 3e.

 

[Capellan]

I don't go looking for TPKs, though I have had them in the past.

There can be a lot of reasons they happen: freakishly bad luck, bad judgement (either by the DM in creating the encounter or the PCs in tackling it) or because it is a "pull out all the stops" end of campaign bonesnapper.

In my home games, I generally avoid character death unless the player makes if inevitable - I'm not a fan of regular use of raise spells, even when the PCs are capable of using them, so I don't want to create too many opportunities for it to happen.

The home games of others, however, are different - and if everyone in the group is happy with that style of play, then more power to them. I know some players feel 'cheated' if it seems like the DM has 'gone easy' on them. I can understand that, and I do my best to avoid fudging dice rolls for just that reason. Instead, I generally set the EL of encounters as if I only had 4 players, even though most sessions I have 5-6. The fights can still be very tense, but the PCs generally have a little extra buffer due to the additional manpower, which allows them to stabilise people.

Con games, on the other hand, are a different matter. They tend to depend on the subject or system of the module. TPKs in Call of Cthulhu or Masque of the Red Death, for instance, are quite acceptable

 

[Larry Fitz]

In answer to your question

"2. If you are a TPK DM, what's the deal? Why? How does it work?"

In my campaigns when TPK's have hapened or nearly happened, it has all been for the same reason. Players came upon a Monster or NPC that was tougher than them, and thought they could deal with the situation through combat, rather than diplomacy.

I did have a scenario in which I was a player and one of the members of the group knocked on a door in a horrific dungeon we were crawling through. The Gorgon on the other side waited for us to open the door before exhaling. Nobody made their save as we were all deliberately crowded around the doorway trying to be first in.....

 

[John Crichton]

Only happened once. There were 2 players. Decided to attack something that they shouldn't have. They had a shot, but bad dice rolls did them in. Actually, I would have continued the campaign but that turned out to be the last time we played it (life got in the way). So they just stayed dead. Otherwise, I try and prevent TPK at all costs.

TPK's are no fun. DM's who strive for such things need to rethink why they run games. And players who constantly tolerate it should wonder why they play...

 

[jdavis]

I've seen my fill of them but never have had one when I am running the game (yet). Some games like Call of Cthulhu or Werewolf the Apocalypse are set up so it's hard not to have them end that way, but both of those games are set up to be very dark. As far as D&D goes it all depends on who is running it and how smart the players are. I have seen DM's who were actually trying to compete with the players but not since High School. I have also played with a DM who was totally rule bound and would not change anything for any reason, when he messed up in preparing a adventure or the party hit a bad streak of roles then he would still refuse to change anything and the party would generally get killed off. He has mellowed over time as a TPK normally made everyone loose interest in his campaign. Nobody I game with likes it when the party dies at once because it just ends the whole campaign, we never make up all new characters in order to start in the middle of a campaign we just start over from scratch.

 

[NoOneofConsequence]

In answer to your question

"2. If you are a TPK DM, what's the deal? Why? How does it work?"

In my campaigns when TPK's have hapened or nearly happened, it has all been for the same reason. Players came upon a Monster or NPC that was tougher than them, and thought they could deal with the situation through combat, rather than diplomacy.

I did have a scenario in which I was a player and one of the members of the group knocked on a door in a horrific dungeon we were crawling through. The Gorgon on the other side waited for us to open the door before exhaling. Nobody made their save as we were all deliberately crowded around the doorway trying to be first in.....

Aahhh...greedy player stupidity - this I recognise. Personally I have the dubious honour of once having a stupid comrade cast a fireball into a 10'x10' room in which the party was standing. I and the rest of the party made our saves and lived. The idiot caster standing in the doorway failed his save and was roasted by his own spell.

Ya see...even God doesn't let me have TPK's