D&D 4E New 4E DM - A couple questions

[Rel]

We've taken to using a 24x36 pad of 1" graph paper from Office Depot and I love it. I can pre-draw multiple maps and just whip out the one I need for the next encounter when it comes up. Furthermore if the PC's ever revisit the same (or a similar) location then I can just grab out the old map and run with it.

I also use the snap-together cardboard dungeon corridors/rooms from my Descent boardgame, which are the best gaming accessories EVER.

 

[Griogre]

I may start with a Delve or two, and eventually move into KotS (or at least something more beefy than a delve) if it is that challenging for newbies.

The problem with KotS is that you will probably hit the most nasty encounter in the module as the 3rd or 4th encounter. Basically it's bad pacing.

If you would like to run KotS for your new guys, then you can rather easily shift that encounter to the last one. H1 Spoiler:

Spoiler

The way the module is set up after the the party arrives in Winterhaven they are sent into the meat grinder of an encounter by the lord. Instead a very easy fix for the module would be to have the lord sent them to the keep first. Once they have finished the keep have the lord ask them to get rid of those pesky Kobolds "once and for all."

 

[Pale Jackal]

The plain Flip-Mat works out alright. It helps to unfold it and maybe stick something on the creases so it lays flat while you play. You can draw on either side so you can pre-draw two encounters. You can get Expo markers for cheap ($5 for 5, 2 black, 1 r/g/b) at a local store. Though the transparencies idea is an interesting one, since you may have more than two encounters and maybe you skip one for some reason. The giant mat of graph paper sounds nice (24 x 36 is big!) but I wonder if it's not just cheaper to go with a Flip Mat ($13 + shipping, which is expensive, unfortunately, from Paizo, but maybe you want something else from them) and a set of wet-erase markers.

 

[filthgrinder]

I use the Chessex battlemaps, along with any appropriate tiles and 3D papercraft terrain.

I also ran the KotS with two different groups and TPK'ed them twice on the same encounter. I'm convinced that the Irontooth encounter is beatible, but only by a well coordinated team. That encounter is SUPER hard on the players. I would just completely avoid it. If anything, I'd replace it with the first Delve from Dungeon Delve.

The thing is that I really believe it can be done. I just think it needs a party that knows what it's doing, and works together really well. I'd like to a group that has been playing 4E for awhile now go back, roll up level 1s and then try it again.

I think the most "fun" comes from the party getting into the Keep itself.

 

[Feeroper]

Interesting. If I run Kepp (and I dont why, but i really want to) I will most likely make some adjustments depending on how things go. Maybe it will be a humbling experience if they have nothing but wins up until that point.

 

[MadLordOfMilk]

...(To the best of my knowledge, nobody has ever defeated the goblin barbarian guy without DM fudging.)...

My group pulled it off, and they were complete 4e newbies. It was like their third encounter. Of course, it was a close one, but Irontooth got stomped by the paladin on a 42-damage (or something in that ballpark) crit! That was also the first time that player played... great way to get someone hooked

As far as the adventure goes, I think it's cool, but it's also incredibly long for a "starter" adventure. The quick few encounters towards the back of the DMG should cover you for a session or two (depending on how long you run for). As a newbie DM at the time, I had some trouble running it and keeping it interesting. I'm sure if I ran it now, though, it would be much more engaging. Let me just stress, know the adventure before you run it! That's the real key to running something you didn't make up. Know the adventure and give it a read before you run it, and be willing to make things up as you go along story-wise... it covers some stuff, but not a ton. If you have any questions about it (mostly because it was the first adventure I ran as a DM, so I might be able to relate), feel free to email me!

 

[Infiniti2000]

KotS is fine as a starter, but I highly recommend restarting after that adventure. Actually, after any 1st-3rd adventure you might choose. Everyone will learn a lot by then and restarting with a better working knowledge will make for a much more enjoyable game for the long-term. You'll be better for it knowing ahead of time that the characters are all "throw away."

As for general advice, the key point of 4E is that as DM you should strive to say, "Yes." Always err on the side of the players and if they ask if they can do something or if such-and-such happens, etc., say "yes" (or whatever is in their favor). As a long time gamer from way back in the day, I found this a surprisingly difficult concept at first. Tell your players about this and that they should remind you to say "yes" and I'll bet you'll be surprised how often it comes up.

Enjoy!

 

[Griogre]

(To the best of my knowledge, nobody has ever defeated the goblin barbarian guy without DM fudging.)

The second group I ran through did it all on their own. Honestly, the barbarian has always gone down even in the TPKs when I've run the encounter. Mostly because he scared the players enough they concentrated on him. However, while I had 4E newbies (including myself in the first time) I also had groups with guys who had played D&D for years. And after watching that goblin in action for a round each group I ran dusted off their dailies and had the strikers orientated on him. I could just feel the players painting a big bull’s-eye on him.

 

[WalterKovacs]

I ran some new players through a gauntlet to get them leveled to 2 very quickly. They were a slightly higher powered party (they were allowed to roll for stats), but there was only 4 of them. They went through the 1st level dungeon delve with few problems. To follow things up I ran them through the intermission encounter from Keep on the Shadowfell (with the elf and the undead) and as their 5th encounter of the day, they did the Irontooth fight.

By that encounter, most of their dailies were used up, although they did recieve new magic items at the end of the 3rd encounter (they basically got the entire treasure package for 1st level). This actually meant that one of the players was wielding a magic greatsword they weren't proficient with (yet) which meant that things were a bit riskier (they were an avenger though, so it didn't hurt as much as it would against others). There was some DM fudging at the end, mostly because the store was closing and I wanted to end things, however part of this was also because earlier in the fight I was misusing Irontooth's double attack power, using both attacks against the same target, which twice resulted in critical hits that wouldn't have happened, and thus, odds are the entire party would have still been concious during the end game where it was only Irontooth left, so the fudge of not counting his regeneration would have definitely been countered by the extra damage from the swordmage being up and about instead of unconcious.

 

[Jhaelen]

As far as the adventure goes, I think it's cool, but it's also incredibly long for a "starter" adventure.

Yep. I definitely prefer shorter adventures for the first adventure. They're better suited for the players to decide if they like the game and their character concepts. If they don't it's easier for them to drop out or make new characters.

I think the mini adventure in the DMG is almost sufficient for a starter adventure. If you add a bit of background and a skill challenge and maybe one additional encounter, you're golden.