D&D 4E New 4E term "combat advantage"

[ShinRyuuBR]

When you’re surprised, you grant combat advantage, but you don’t need to look at a special AC on your sheet -- the normal number works fine.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20071005

You don’t grant enemies combat advantage in surprise rounds.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20071126

At this point, I'm starting to think "combat advantage" is a new game term with a very specific meaning. It could, of course, be a wildcard term for details they don't want to get into yet, but that just sounds silly. I mean, they go out of their way to give us a peek at feats and hide just the part where they would say something like "loses any Dex bonus to AC" or "suffers a -2 penalty to AC"... that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

We already knew that there will be no flat-footed AC or touch AC. Now this "combat advantage" term comes up the second time, once again referring to what we used to call flat-footed. So, it stands to reason that "combat advantage" will be a mechanic that replaces the old "lose any Dex bonus to AC".

But what exactly is "combat advantage"?

It might simply be a bonus to the attack roll. But it seems silly to have such a term for a simple penalty. More likely it will probably be a power trigger, such as bloodied. We know that being bloodied will allow you to use certain powers and that other powers can only affect bloodied targets (or affect them differently). Speculations include entering barbarian rage when you're bloodied, or desintegrate working fully only upon bloodied targets. You might expect as well to see something like "you may only sneak attack an opponent against whom you have combat advantage". Thus, we will have "combat advantage", "bloodied" and probably "helpless" too as conditions that trigger special attack options. Though I do hope there are still attack bonuses and AC penalties involved.

I'm expecting combat advantage being granted by surprise, flanking, stunning, cowering, grappling and blindness, which are all redudant at least partially (all -2 to AC or Dex bonus negated or both). Since they're simplifying, it makes sense.

On a side note, it seems "combat advantage" will be granted only on surprise rounds in which the character cannot take action, as in SWSaga. Whereas D&D3.5 determines you lose any Dex bonus to AC until your first turn in the encounter, which means those who act before you in the first round have you still flat-footed. The change is bad for the rogue as we know him, but we also know the rogue will have an array of sneak-attack-enabling powers, which we imagine is something like feinting.

Thoughts?

 

[The Little Raven]

But what exactly is "combat advantage"?

From the way they use it, it sounds like it's an attack bonus versus surprised targets. So instead of making the player figure out his flat-footed AC, the attack just gets like a +2 bonus to attack.

 

[EricNoah]

maybe combat advantage is different depending on your class or "role". Maybe it's a sneak attack from a rogue, or a chance to cast a certain kind of spell if you're a wizard, or whatever.

 

[Pbartender]

Thoughts?

Yes...

In other news...

"Grant enemies combat advantage" seems to be the new verbiage for "flat-footed". I'd expect to see "combat advantage" referenced in sneak attacks, flanking, feinting, high ground, invisibility, concealment/cover, etc...

Which would also mean that Alertness seems to have kicked Uncanny Dodge in the junk and taken its wallet.

Not much to say about it yet, except for the presumption that it is undoubtedly the bonus gained by actions such as surprising your enemy, attacking a prone target, flanking or feinting, and which allows you take other special actions such as sneak attacks.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Yep, I agree. Pretty much it seems that it is a catch all term for "you have some tactical advantage over the enemy". It's probably so that a possible DM (as well as all the players) won't have to remember:
+2 for flanking
No dex modifier while grappled
-4 to your ac while prone
+2 to hit while invisible
-2 to your ac while blinded
No dex modifier while flatfooted
No dex modifier while balancing
+1 for higher ground

And probably a bunch of others I'm not thinking of right now. It will also allow the DM to apply modifiers for more general things the rules don't cover (you leap down from above while attacking? I'll give you combat advantage for that).

 

[Irda Ranger]

More likely it will probably be a power trigger, such as bloodied.

Agreed. You either have Combat Advantage ("CA"), or you don't. It's probably also impossible for two parties to have CA against each other at the same time.

Hm. The term "power trigger" is probably accurate (having CA allows you to do certain things), but I bet it's going to be called a "status" or "condition."

What CA will allow you to do will probably in part depend on class. There will probably be generic CA effects anyone can do, but also class specific ones. A Rogue's sneak attack will require CA, but maybe so will Rain of Blows (a Fighter ability mentioned at GenCon).

 

[Irda Ranger]

And probably a bunch of others I'm not thinking of right now. It will also allow the DM to apply modifiers for more general things the rules don't cover (you leap down from above while attacking? I'll give you combat advantage for that).

Both of the above reasons (not being able to remember all relevant mods; being able to improvise) are great examples of why CA (if it is what we think it is) will be a great improvement. It will also make stacking modifiers go away (you either have it or you don't; having it "twice" doesn't add any more bonuses).

 

[Aust Diamondew]

I wonder if there'll be different degrees of combat advantage.
For instance (assuming Majoru Oakheart guessed what confers it correctly) if you strike a prone opponent during a surprise round while flanking him do you gain only +2 or +6?

I think it might be a good idea to let multiple 'combat advantages' stack up to something around +6, +8 or maybe as high as +10.

If it doesn't stack I hope its a larger bonus say, +4.

 

[SteveC]

Combat Advantage? Bah! Don't like the name...not enough flavor! How about "Platinum Fray Ascendancy!"

What?



--Steve

 

[Warbringer]

"Platinum Fray Ascendancy!"

--Steve

looks around for WoTC design staff