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Lancer opinions

Hello! Great work on the Lancer class ff6shadow, I didn't think a martial controller was viable until now.

I've been giving it a look over, and I've got a few comments and suggestions and such for you to go over if you'd like. I didn't get through everything, but here's what I've come up with so far.

For Roundabout Capability, I like the side effect that elves can shift adjacent to a lancer while others cannot. The wording is a little bit awkward, but for the life of me I cannot think of anything better. It's the moving away bit that I wish there was a way to be more elegant.

For the at-will powers, a lot of them just do 1[W] damage without additional damage. Seeing as the class is a controller though, it might be fair to do 1[W] + Strength modifier damage like wizard powers do with Intelligence. I mean, Thunderwave does Blast 3 and pushes, as well as doing 1d6 + Int, and Scorching Burst does area Burst 1 with 1d6 + Int. If you want to keep them from doing additional damage, it might be best to keep them balanced against a wizard and differentiate them as well by making the burst and blasts target enemies only, and not allies. I'd recommend that for Burst Strike at least, and perhaps leave Spinning Strike's "all creatures in burst" targeting the way it is, but also provide a -1 to attack rolls until end of your next turn on a hit. Rushing Strike is probably fine without the extra damage, but I would add a +1 to attack rolls to make it a sort of mini-charge. Defensive Spin I can see just doing the 1[W] though (+2 to AC/Reflex with a staff is awesome). I could see the argument that the ranger does 1[W] to two targets, but they are also strikers, not controllers. Piercing Thrust, I cannot advise a change for, as it looks great. I'm just looking at comparing the class to wizard, so take my advice here with a grain of salt.

Also, the Flurry of Blows Paragon feat says you use your full Intelligence modifier, whereas the Flurry of Blows class ability says half your Dexterity modifier. I think one of those is a typo. Also, you might want to change the names of the Flurry of Blows power (e3) as well as the Paragon feat to differentiate them. Like Improved Flurry of Blows for the feat, or "Distracting Barrage" for the power. Otherwise you have three things called Flurry of Blows on your character sheet potentially.

Typo and formatting wise, the Spinning Strike at-will power has the flavor text above the "At-Will * Martial, Weapon" text instead of below like the rest of your powers. Dizzying Strikes (d5) has the last two labels reversed ("Special: You gain a +2 bonus to hit if using a quarterstaff" and "Weapon: The target is dazed" labels reversed. Whirling Attack (d1) says Strength vs Ref instead of Reflex (like you have printed elsewhere) for attack. Lunge and Sweep (d9) says "make an attack against all enemies besides the original target that is.." instead of "original target that are".

You also use a new mechanic for bursts and blasts that refer to "close burst/blast melee weapon" or "close burst/blast melee weapon +1". It might be better to just have those powers be Close Blast 3/Burst 2, with the requirement that you are wielding a reach weapon. I know you could argue that with the powers you built that extend one's reach that you wouldn't get as much benefit, but I see those reach extending powers as being meant for single lunges and not swirling or sweeping attacks (other than Surprise Strike). Of course, you could also mention in all the reach extending powers that it also extends the Close Bursts and Blasts range by 1 as well for lancer powers.

Also, as I mentioned in my "at-will" section, it might be a good idea to apply the "target all enemies in burst/blast" instead of "all creatures", at least for the blasts. This can compensate that the wizard gets larger areas and longer ranges, but the lancer only targets enemies and not allies. Bursts, I can understand whirling your weapon around indiscriminately about you, but blasts are much more targeted. "All creatures" applies to, other than at-wills, Blinding Swipe (e1-burst), Flurry of Blows (e3-blast), Wide Sweep (e7-burst), Storm of Blows (d9-burst), Furious Flurry (d9-blast), Blinding Cloud (e13-burst), Javelin Storm (e13-burst), Assaulting Flurry (e17-blast), Frenzied Whirlwind (e17-burst), Javelin Hail (d19-burst), Celeritous Spin (e23-burst), Pinning Sweep (e25-burst), Lethal Storm (d25-burst), Whirlwind Assault (e27-burst), Hail of Blows (Living Tornado e11-blast), Ruinous Zephyr (Ruinous Zephyr d20-burst), Thundering Assault (Elemental Fury e11-blast), Elemental Assault (Elemental Fury d20-burst).

The ones that are already set to "all enemies" are Swirling Blows (e1-burst), Whirling Attack (d1-burst), Lightning Assault (d5-burst), Manic Whirlwind (e7-burst), Rotating Assault (e13-burst), Mighty Sweep (d15-burst), Endless Attacks (d19-burst), Violent Swing (e23-burst), Disastrous Squall (d29-burst), Holding Pattern (Divine Shield e11-burst). It's just not very consistent, and the flavor text often says it lays waste to your foes, although the rules text says all creatures.

The Encounter 1 power Lunge has a range of "Melee Weapon +1 Squares"... might be better to have a Special: Increase the reach of your weapon by one square with this attack. Also Distracting Shot has the italics tags visible. The wording for Dazzling Assault (e3) mentions targets provoking OA from adjacent enemies - their enemies (you and your party) or your enemies? It might be more balanced if they just grant combat advantage. Same with Blinding Assault (e13). Iron Wall (d29) refers to slowing a target on a miss, but not how it ends (save ends or end of next turn typically).

I hope some of my obversations or ideas are helpful! Thanks for sharing!
 

adamda, thanks for the comments.

For Roundabout Capability, I hadn't considered that elve's could shift into the square. I suppose the abiity could be better worded as "All squares adjacent to you require an extra 1 Move to enter or exit." Unless you think letting an elf slide in is a good idea. Another thing with this new possible wording is that it would stack with existing difficult terrain.

For the At-Will's I left Strength off for damage on most of the becuase most of the wizard's at-wills do little damage. Only Magic Missile deals more than a d6. In comparison, a Lancer can do d6 (Javelin) but will more likely do a minimum of d8, and can do much more with any of the following options (d10, d12, 2d4). So the lack of a modifier to damage is designed to compensate for the high possible damage die involved.

I will add that Rushing Strike is considered a charge, meaning it'll gain the +1 and gain bonuses for Charge related stuff. And I'll edit blasts to be ally friendly, though bursts will not be.

The Paragon Feat Flurry of Blows was supposed to have Improved added to it. It is fixed.

Yeah the formatting is on most of the document. I'll be moving the flavor text above all else, as with the Player's Handbook.

Dizzying Strikes, Lunge and Sweep, And Whirling Attacks have been corrected.

The idea behind using Close Blast/Burst Melee Weapon +1 and the like, are to make the class multi-class friendly, and just option friendly all around. I despise the rogue for having his entire class linked to two weapon types. Though this class is obviously Spear/Staff focuses, I wanted to leave the option for other weapons. It also makes the class more appealing for a Fighter, Ranger, or Warlord to multi-class over for some of the bursts.

Iron Wall's slow hase a duration now (save ends). As for the attacks that provoke Opportunity Attacks, I intended to give allied fighters a leg up. Along with other any OA friendly class and paragon path features.

For the powers that share a class feature name, woud you have any suggestions for other names?

Again, thanks for all your input,m and I hope my post provides some insight into my thought process for this. If you have any other comments or suggestions, on this class or others, I'd be glad to hear them.


Lancer PDF updated.
 

Glad to help!!!

For roundabout: When wielding a reach weapon, all squares adjacent to you require an additional square of movement to enter or exit. This prevents the normal shifting of one square, but not special forms of shifting that allows additional movement.

Is that too powerful, to eliminate an opponents mobility that severely? Should there be a clause that all allows all shifting, at least to move away? Perhaps the advanced power prevents shifting, but not the default class ability? I do kind of like the idea of difficult terrain stacking with this, requiring three squares of movement to enter or exit the adjacent squares.

Good point about the at-will damage being greater via [W], didn't fully consider that. I initially cringed at powers that just dealt damage like the Burst and Blast at-wills, but scorching burst does the same. And now the burst will be differentiated from the blast via creatures they target (allies/enemies), so no complaints here. I could argue that the extra range potential on the wizard offsets the lesser damage die, but then again, the lancer is more durable.

Something I just noticed: things such as the lancer tactics (or rogue, or warlock pacts) only apply to encounter powers. You have it applying to dailies as well. Don't know if that matters much, but it doesn't completely follow the design of the other classes.

As for the name of the Flurry of Blows power (which we know we'll show up with the new monk in some form), how about Distracting Barrage? It provides a penalty to AC after all. Maybe even change the class ability/feat name to something that WotC hasn't already stamped into peoples minds as "monk". Maybe "Deft Soldier". Likewise, if you want the Precision Strike ability to sound less like an attack and more of a description of the build, "Shrewd Trooper". As it stands, Precision Strike sounds like the fighter power Precise Strike.

That makes a lot of sense regarding the Burst/Blasts being weapon dependent for multiclassing purposes. However, it is somewhat confusing the way it is worded "Close Blast Melee Weapon +1"... melee range is usually 1, so +1 would be a Blast 2? Blast 2s don't really exist in the game. If you were using a reach weapon, sure you'd have a Blast 3 as per normal. It just seems like a difficult mechanic that requires some explanation. I don't know how to make it right without using a static number. I don't really see how using a non reach melee weapon could really hit everyone in a blast 3 or higher. A burst 2 or more with a non reach melee weapon also seems rather silly. Maybe use a static number, and have a clause where using a non-reach weapon with the powers reduces all bursts to 1, and bursts only can target enemies in melee reach.

The problem with the OA granting attacks is that they say the OA goes to adjacent enemies. Usually enemy refers to players' enemies, but in this case adjacent allies should be able to swing at the distracted enemies.

Other than Flurry of Blows and Precise Strike, were there any other class abilities/powers that are similar or identical to other class abilities/powers?

Thanks for responding with your thoughts on it all!
 

Okay, Precision Strike Tactics is called Accurate Assault and Flurry of Blows is called Tumultuous Onlsaught. And I used Distracting Barrage.

I agree that the Close Blast Melee Weapon +1 can be a bit confusing, but I find it easy to explain what it does, compared with need to add multiple lines of text to every power that uses it.

And I reworded the powers that used opportunity attacks. Does this work better?

Each target provokes an opportunity attack from any of your allies adjacent to it and suffers a -2 penalty to attack rolls until the end of your next round.


Lancer PDF is updated.
 

I dig the names you chose for the tactics powers!

Also, was I right about the "Close Blast Melee Weapon +1" being a Blast 2 with a non-reach weapon, Burst 3 with a reach weapon? And "Close Burst Melee Weapon" is a Burst 1 with a non reach weapon, and a Burst 2 with a reach weapon? I'm just trying to understand the mechanic.

The way you worded the opportunity attack powers makes perfect sense to me!
 

Woah, I haven't checked back here in a while. Looks like I will need to download the new Lancer.

Sorry about being unclear with the dreadnought. I meant the Dreadnought tactics (not powers). Both seem a little too powerful (+2 def, +2 att). There is also an additional +1 when bloodied. Do these stack with the +'s vs focus. If so, there is some big +'s early on, especially if combined with a race that uses this mechanic. I am not sure a bloodied mechanic should be with a class.

In any case our player chose Furious Storm and we dropped the bonus vs focus to +1 just like a Ranger's Prime Shot (or Quarry - whichever it is).

Perhaps there is a case for remaining +2 and losing the additional bloodied mechanic. Perhaps a +1 att is enough for tactics. (Or def for the other tactic).

Other than that the class is going really well. The PC is very lightly armored at this stage and getting hit easy (as you pointed out), but the powers are working wonderfully. Maybe, being a striker, there needs to be some more movement options. (There could be and our player isn't using them yet...I will need to read the class again myself). ;)

Player is really enjoying it though and it really suits the gamba for our campaign. :)

C
 

Yeah adamda. You've got the mechanic. And I'm feeling better about using such unorthodox ranges after seeing Martial Power.


Connorsrpg, they weren't inteded to stack. I neglected to type them. It has been updated.

As for movement, it is more limited in this class then the other strikers, becuase this guy tends to be far more durable and in your face. But there is som there. I'll dig them up, so you can suggest them to your player.

Seeking Blow - Encounter 1 - Shift 1/2 your speed, but only towards your Focus.
Move Into Position - Encounter Utility 2 - Minor action to move your speed.
Push Beyond the Fray - Encounter 3 - Smack the target 5 squares, then shift after him.
Focused Escaep - Encounter Utility 6 - Not technically movement, but it does enadle you to escape your focus if your getting beaten.
Enter the Melee - Encounter Utility 10 - Minor Action move 5, but only towards the fight.
Reckless Charge - Encounter Utility 10 - Enables movement over difficult terrain.
Slide Through the Gap - Encounter Utility 16 - Move Action to shift half your speed.
Unstoppable - Encounter Utillity 22 - Shift your speed as long as you end adjacent to your Focus.

Not exactly the best selection of movement, and I thing Slide Through the Gap is underpowered. I'm changing it to Minor Action. Also, alot of powers can be used on charges, which also provide additional movement.
 

Summoner has been updated. I've altered the formatting mostly, though the summoning keyword did recieve some extra lines

The sustain text on every daily power has been removed. The effect has been written into the summoning keyword.

The summoning keyword has additional text now. First, all powers with the summoning keyword remain for the entire encounter, unless the power otherwise says so. This has no mechanical change, since encounter powers all say they last a round, and all dailies were free to sustain anyway.

Additionally, I've added an extra section to the summoning keyword, that allows you and your summons to both benefit from some actions. Specifically, if you use your second wind, your ceatures gains the benefit. If you take a total defense, so does your creature. And finally, when you use a move actgion, you can move your summon as well. These changes were inspired by the Beastmaster ranger.


Work in Progress now has all base powers.

I'm taking one last open request for names before I decide on one.

Additionally, I'm taking any suggestions on Paragon Paths for this guy as well.
 

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