New cleric system?

[grimslade]

I liked all the uses for Turn Undead that 3.5e brought out. Why not expand that mechanic and drop spell casting from the cleric. If the priest has the spellcasting niche covered, let the cleric be a tin can wearing, mace smackin', holy power channelin' combat medic.

So Spontaneous Casting for limited uses of channel Holy/Unholy/Axiomatic/Chaotic Power

Turn Undead, Cure Wounds, Spiritual Weapon, Shield of the Faithful, Bless/Curse, Blade Barrier. It would play out like a spell point system, more points give greater effects.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

In some ways, I think that "encounter powers" model blessings and other divine powers very well. A Pelorian priest may be able to provide the Blessing of Saint Illifyd, the Angelic Castigation of Brilliant Light and the Recitation of Allor. However, they can only perform these once before needing to have a break to pray or give devotion or some such. Once such devotions have been made, they get their repertoire back.

However, I think it would be interesting if some of the big callings of one's deity used up some divine resource that impacted their influence. Their god would help or assist in need but it could leave the priest somewhat limited until they had squared the divine ledger.

The other thing I like is for all low level devotions (divine spell effects) to have no obvious effect or manifestation. A blessing might give a bonus that may help or not. This ties in that whole idea of faith. Did that blessing help or is the local priest a swindler and full of hogwash? It helps if you want a little more ambiguity when it comes to the influence of the gods. Food for thought anyway.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Khaalis]

Personally, I love what Fantasy Craft did with the archetype in the creation of their Priest class. One thing to keep in mind is that the "power curve" in FC is quite a bit lower than in D&D, especially in magic. For instance a mage can cast "cantrips" at no cost all day long, but don't get access to 1st level spells until 3rd level.

The FC Priest class covers all of your "worship" based archetypes including shamans, druids, clerics, acolytes, mystics and any other "practitioner" of a faith.

Each Faith has a number of Paths (Domains) assigned to it. For instance the Dwarven patron of blacksmiths, warriors, and fathers might have the Paths of Earth, Metal, and Strength associated with it. Each Path then has 5 Steps in it. As the priest gains levels they gain access to more steps. For instance at 1st level the Priest gains 1 Step in any 1 of their Paths.

Paths then offer a variety of different abilities, from bonus skills and bonuses to skills, to bonus Feats to Miracles (aka spells).

This gives the class a unique acquisition mechanic, while at the same time, not reinventing the wheel. Instead of making them outright casters like the D&D cleric, FC Priests have a "Caster Level" equal to their level but not all of them gain spells. which act more like 3E's spell-like abilities) which are often set up as a "per scene" resource (similar to 4E's per encounter). Some of the Step 5 spells, being very powerful are actually only usable once per adventure such as Resurrection for Path of Life 5.

An example of a Step that grants spells:
• PATH OF LIFE 2: You may cast Cure Wounds II and Restoration I once per scene.


For the Dwarven example above, a 1st level Priest would be able to choose Step 1 from one of their paths, which would be:
• PATH OF EARTH 1: You gain the Pathfinder Basics (caverns/mountains) feat.
• PATH OF METAL 1: You gain the Crafting (Metalworking) focus and a +5 bonus with Crafting (Metalworking) checks.
• PATH OF STRENGTH 1: You gain a +5 bonus with Athletics checks.


On top of this, the class then gets a laundry list of Class Features aside from the abilities they gain from their Paths.

For instance:
• Use of a ritual weapon (when it’s lost or destroyed it’s replaced at no cost [after a set condition]).
• Ability to spend a resource (action dice) to re-roll a failed attack with a ritual weapon or a Priest class skill.
• # of times per adventure to ask the GM for a Hint. The GM can refuse and you get a bonus action die instead.
• Bonus Feats (Chance and Style feats only)
• Special Abilities: Priests get to choose 5 special powers from options like: Benediction, Congregation, Rebuke, Turning, Sacred Weapon, etc.
• Bonus to Wisdom (+1 at 10th and 20th)
• Bonus with Will (10th) & Fort (20th) saves to you and allies

And then paths...
• Paths: You gain 1 Step along a Path at every odd level, giving you a total of 10 Steps in any combination from your paths. Most faiths have between 3 and 5 Paths they offer.

 

[steeldragons]

For my own homebrew, I allow spontaneous casting for Cleric spells of 1st and 2nd level. No need for "memorizing" or anything. Just pray/invoke as you need it.

This is to model/flavor the cleric/priest's "official religious connection" to the deity's power.

Also, all clerics in my world are "2e-styled specialty clerics". So clerics of one deity do not necessarily have access to the same spells as another.

But reading some of the suggestions for taking this "flavor/fluff" a bit further...maybe opening it up to all cleric spell levels (or even up to 4th or something, higher level requiring more "direct attention" from the god or their servants) or "prayer/devotion" on the fly might further separate the cleric from the mage.

IOW, yes, you start with x number of spells (spell slots) at the beginning of the day. Say you cast them in one battle and then spend an hour that afternoon (or whenever you have a suitably safe/secure space and moment) in meditation and/or giving tribute or what have you to get them back.

I would NOT like an "encounter" power that has no flavor/fluff to back it up. The magic "just comes back" with no in game ramification doesn't work for me/my style of play (what happens if the next "encounter" is 15 in-game minutes later when unexpected reinforcements arrive?).

But saying, spend an hour (or 15 minutes per spell slot or however you work it out), say your "afternoon or evening prayers," set up a few stones in the corner of the battle site as a makeshift shrine to your god and make a "donation" or "sacrifice" of the defeated foes' weapon...or whatever...and you get back your allotment then...that's fine with me...and keeps things interesting in-game...i.e. You may not have time or opportunity to regain your spells right away...but when you find somewhere decently secure/safe, maybe you can.

So, maybe your powers aren't achievable every "encounter"...maybe you can't/don't have time before the next encounter, but do before the third one or before you go to bed and so are at "full power" when your camp is attacked that night on watch...while the spent mage is still trying to get some Zzz's.

And further separates the priests from the mages in that they can cast multiple times per day whereas the mages must memorize and then are spent for the day without the 8 hours of rest thing to recharge their internal batteries.

Clerics don't really function as a 'battery", they are a "conduit" and when they "do the right things (prayers, tributes, hymns, acting in accordance with their faith, etc.) to keep their conduit clear/open" the power flows.

Just some thoughts coalescing from some other fun/intriguing suggestions in this thread.
--SD

 

[howandwhy99]

My cleric system is not a spellcasting system, though that does supplement the class. Instead it's the Alignment, morale, and loyalty system centered on relationships between intelligent creatures.

Clerics end up being second rate warriors and second rate spell casters. It's not their schtick though. They are best and better than anyone else when within their own wheelhouse. Their combat abilities reflect their class as do the spells they receive.

In terms of divine spellcasting, clerics do not need rest only prayer an hour every day. (Not resting leads to its own consequences however) Clerics gain a set # of spells / level. They have access to all of them as soon as that spell level becomes available. What spells are in that set are variable, but most default (non custom) are focused on bettering the cleric at performing the duties of its class. Deities and religions are typically custom player creations so custom spells can highlight each PC's unique faith (barring players opting for the same one). NPC religion spell lists may claim other domains and have different spells because of this. A lot of the default list is very useful however. It's not mandatory, but Contact Other Plane or Detect Alignment, Bless, and some other spells are very useful in being a cleric.

 

[Starfox]

I liked 3E clerics, but thought that they should vary much more depending on their patron and/or domains. There should be very little similarity between a priest of Athena and one of Artemis. Athena's cleric would be somewhat like the ordinary DnD cleric, while Artemis' cleric would be an archer and hunter roaming the forest.

* Not all clerics should be tanks - and those who choose lighter armor could gain abilities like Evasion to compensate.
* Clerics should have a skill list much more dependent upon patron/domains.
* Domains/patron should matter a lot more, for both abilities and spell selection.

This all sounds a lot like the 2ed Specialty Priest, but those were lackluster - most of them gave up a lot of the normal cleric's powers and gained very little in return.

In a world that is not monotheistic or dualistic, the very christian clerics and miracles (some are even directly from the bible) just doesn't fit. The way the 4E cleric (and 3E cleric too,if you exclude domains) was to me not really a cleric, but more of an "Astral Magician", a spellcaster focusing the energy of the outer planes (as opposed to arcane casters who focus more on the inner planes).

Athena's cleric, each time his actions work toward his deity's objective, rises in her regard. The easiest game-mechanic could be points (call it Karma, Favour, whatever) that the cleric accumulates over time.

We already have this, in a way. It is called experience points. A player cleric should have a patron that values the adventures the cleric is having - else what is the point of adventuring? So when the adventure is successful and gives xp, the cleric increases in favor, and thus power.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

Clerics shouldn't have to prepare spells - in fact I always thought they would have been better as 3E sorcerors, they know X spells but cast them however they like.

Repeating myself from the other thread where this was suggested in passing, I agree that 3E sorcerer casting makes a good base casting style for divine magic, especially paired with Vancian as the base for arcane. It is an extension of spontaneous casting, while at the same time making all divine casters specialists. From there, they can vary further.