D&D Movie/TV New D&D movie details? Vecna?!

[Son of the Serpent]

Harald Sigurdsson, King of Norway from 1046 - 1066 spent time in Constantinople (from around 1034) where he served as a Commander of the Varangian Guard and particpated in raids across the Mediterannean, including against North Africa. One legend is that in africa he seized 80 castles and killed the ‘King of Africa’ in single combat.
The point being that the Norse were quite aware of Africa and had encountered Africans

As to drow, I like the scene in American Gods where Czernobog is talking about his brother Belobog, he makes the point that although there are no Black people in his homeland still he is called the black god and considered accursed, cruel and associated with the devil whereas his brother is considered fair and good. Thats the original metaphoric association of Black, not its contemporary association with high melanin levels

yeah. the dark elves go back way further than that. your logic claim doesn't follow. the norse didn't construct the idea of dark elves from a time in the 1000s. norse myths are often very old myth indeed.

 

[Son of the Serpent]

also mediterraneans and such are not subsaharan africans. generally they aren't thought of as darkskinned. the ones that are are the exception generally. they had olive skin. besides, this is a case of "dark" being associated with evil, not being associated with subsaharan african genes.

 

[Son of the Serpent]

Dragonborn appeared in "Draces of Dragons" in 2006. And I dare to say the idea of the dragonborn is linked to the dargonkins, a previous monster, as source of inspiration. I mean the dragonborn are a version of the dragonkins to be used as PC race by the players.

And in elder scrolls games it appeared in 2011, didn't it?

TESV's dragonborn is funny because its like an n'le entendra.

 

[Tonguez]

yeah. the dark elves go back way further than that. your logic claim doesn't follow. the norse didn't construct the idea of dark elves from a time in the 1000s. norse myths are often very old myth indeed.

There were ‘subsaharan africans’ in ancient Rome, the logic is that the Vikings had contact with Africa and by 1000 there were a enough darked skinned Africans in North Africa for them to be a noticeable demographic. (Islam reached Somalia in the 7th century and West Africa by 1000s and those nations were often trading with the Mediterannean)

Moreover our modern knowledge of Svartalfar comes from the Prose Edda which was composed in the 13th century (c 1220), but of course we have no idea if what the image Snorri had in his head was or if it was influenced by Harald Hadrada’s time in Africa

Anyway we’re veering off topic and personally I’m happy with Jacob Grimms metaphoric interpretation of black v light morality.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

yeah. the dark elves go back way further than that. your logic claim doesn't follow. the norse didn't construct the idea of dark elves from a time in the 1000s. norse myths are often very old myth indeed.

That's not what was said or implied. They where simply rubbishing your claim that "Norse never came into contact with Africans", not challenging your claim that "dark elves where not based on Africans".

If you use a falsehood to try and back up a truth it weakens your argument, it doesn't strengthen it.

But what things meant to people who lived fifteen hundred years ago is irrelevant. All that matters is what things mean to people who live in 2019.

 

[Son of the Serpent]

That's not what was said or implied. They where simply rubbishing your claim that "Norse never came into contact with Africans", not challenging your claim that "dark elves where not based on Africans".

If you use a falsehood to try and back up a truth it weakens your argument, it doesn't strengthen it.

But what things meant to people who lived fifteen hundred years ago is irrelevant. All that matters is what things mean to people who live in 2019.

my quote was "The norse didnt exactly have much contact with africans that they would base a mythological race on them anyway." and that is not a falsehood. they didn't have the kind of contact likely to create stories about an entire mythological race.

 

[Son of the Serpent]

why did you change the quote?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

my quote was "The norse didnt exactly have much contact with africans that they would base a mythological race on them anyway." and that is not a falsehood. they didn't have the kind of contact likely to create stories about an entire mythological race.

One could argue that "not much contact" is exactly the right about of contact to create a myth about a race. Norse traded with Mediterranean cultures. People with very black skin would have been known, but been uncommon, in the Mediterranean. One might even call such people "adventurers". So dark elves could have been based on them. They weren't, but they could have been. Your reasoning is false, even if your conclusion is true.

My theory is that they (and many similar stories) are actually based on race memories from the time when Homo Sapiens and Neanderthals lived along side each other (ironically, the human incomers would have had the dark skin, the Neanderthals light). But there is no evidence to support this theory, nor would I expect there to be.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

TESV's dragonborn is funny because its like an n'le entendra.

n'l entendra? I am Spanish. I guess my level of written English is enough good but anytimes I can't understand any expressions, more when they are too colloquial, and pig Latin is criminal.

 

[Chaosmancer]

That's completely beyond the scope of tgis conversation. We are talking about which franchise used the term "dragonborn" first

But that honestly doesn't matter.

The way copyright and trademark laws work (I am not a lawyer but I've run into the discussion enough), there are a few things that need to be met.

First, you need to actually put in the copyright paperwork. If they put in the paperwork to copyright it when they titled Tiber Septim (whoever that is) back in 2002 then there would have been a case already.

Secondly, you need to defend your copyright. This is one of the big reasons why you get "unreasonable" cease and desists from companies. If they do not pursue the defense of their copyright, they lose it, and it becomes public domain. (I'm sure it is far more complicated than that, being a legal thing, but it plays into the "there hasn't been a lawsuit" part)

And Finally, there are some things that you simply cannot copyright. And the term "dragonborn" as in "born of dragons" is probably one of them. You cannot copyright Dragon, they have existed in stories and art since before paper existed. Therefore, you could not copyright the idea of being born of a dragon, or having the blood of a dragon. In fact, warriors who have the blood or power of dragons go back to at least Sigurd of Germanic myth. Again, probably before the invention of paper.

They can't even copyright "warrior who has dragon blood and speaks the dragon language" because all of those things are non-copyrightable. You might as well try and copyright "warrior who is a prince and speaks to animals" it just isn't going to work.

So, it doesn't matter if the words "dragonborn" were first used by WoTC, TSR, or Bethesda. It is too generic a pairing of words to be copyrighted.