New D20 combat system

[Mr. T]

This is a new system (or heavly enhanced) for d20 combat I recently came-up with. The system is similar to base D20 combat, but it allows (in theory) for more simultanious combat.

Start of battle:
Everyone rolls initiative. Same as current D20 combat (wheever has highest init goes first).

On your turn:
your character has X number of AP (action points, no to be confused w/ action points from d20 modern or UA).
Instead of move/attack/full round actions, you spend AP. For example, you could spend Y AP to atk with your dagger, then move 20ft for Z AP.

As an optional additional, for every AP you spend, every one else can spend one. (So if an opponnent spends 5 AP to aim a crossbow at you, you could spend 5 of your AP to dock behind cover, charge them, etc..)

 

[Coredump]

Sounds intriguing.

Most of my questions boil down to "How simultaneous will it be?"

It sounds like it will be *very* simultaneous, and it seems like that will slow things down a lot.

Why don't you present a short combat to illustrate your ideas? (like maybe 2 bad guys and 3 good guys for a few rounds.)

 

[Aaron2]

As an optional additional, for every AP you spend, every one else can spend one. (So if an opponnent spends 5 AP to aim a crossbow at you, you could spend 5 of your AP to dock behind cover, charge them, etc..)

With this rule, it would be better to lose the initiative than to win it. If you go second, you can use your AP to react to your opponent if you wish but when it is your turn, your opponent has no AP left to react to you.

The normal d20 system isn't much different; each player gets 2 action points to spend each round, 1 AP for a move, 1 AP for an attack or 2 AP for a full-attack.

In the old game, Bushido, each character had variable numbers of actions each round based their Dex/10 (round fractions unlike d20). There was another a chart that compared Wis+Dex to Level to determine if these actions were normal or lesser secondary actions. Secondary actions were similar to d20's iterative attacks. This, IMO, is one of the big problems with Epic level play. As characters gain levels they are still limited to 2 actions a round, thus the only way to make them better is to make them ridiculously good at the few actions they do have.


Aaron

 

[ender_wiggin]

What you need to do is somehow have everyone create actions (and spend AP) independent of each other, including their opponents.

If a PC designs to wait (which blows a few AP), he can perhaps "see" his opponent aim the crossbow at him and still have a few AP left before it happens, maybe giving him enough time to dodge. However, if that same PC had attacked the crossbowman beforehand, he might have disabled him before the crossbow could be loosed. Also, if the PC had attacked someone else or done something other than attacking, he wouldn't have noticed the crossbowman aiming.

THis way, its a matter of what you want to do in combat; act first, or react a split second behind someone else?

 

[Acid_crash]

I could see this used, as the game JAGS uses this exact thing for their combat system and it is different and takes some getting used to. The one problem I see is that of casting spells.

If you keep it to just 2 AP, one to attack and one to move (or move equivalent action), then how do you handle all the extra attacks a class gets? Is that another Action Point that can be just spent on an attack, or would it be possible to use it as another move action, or cast a spell, or something else?

 

[ender_wiggin]

In the old game, Bushido, each character had variable numbers of actions each round based their Dex/10 (round fractions unlike d20). There was another a chart that compared Wis+Dex to Level to determine if these actions were normal or lesser secondary actions. Secondary actions were similar to d20's iterative attacks.

So how does this work exactly?

 

[tjoneslo]

I've seen other games do this before. The most modern one I've seen is At Close Quarters (includes Penguins). This makes for a very realistic combat system, though somewhat more complex. If you are interested in ACQ, I've done most of the conversion to D20.

 

[Aaron2]

So how does this work exactly?

With Bushido, that's never an easy answer but I'll try anyway. Each character has a Speed stat which determines his movement speed. Speed/10 determines his number of actions per round (from 0 to 3 with 0 meaning one action every other round).

Next a character has a stat called "Zanshin"* which compared a character's Wis+Speed+Dex to his level to get another number from 1 to 3. This number determined how many of your actions are "Primary" actions. All others, if any, are "Secondary" actions. If, for some reason, your Zanshin exceeds your number of actions, all your actions are Primary (but you don't get extra). Primary actions were similar to d20's standard actions while Secondary actions just let you make an additional attack or parry at 1/2 your percentage. The main exception is that you can only move or cast a spell once per round.


Aaron

*Bushido does have an annoying habbit of using Japanese words for some stats and English words for others, pretty much at random.

 

[Afrodyte]

Mr. T,

I like this idea. It gives opportunities to do more interesting things in combat, which is great for doing things besides roll-hit/miss-damage. Several systems use something like this, the most notable being Feng Shui, but the closest to D20 being Decipher's LotR RPG.

Instead of giving people X AP to spend, how about having 1 round be represented by N action slots, where N is a discrete unit of time such as 6 seconds or one minute or what have you. Anything you do within that allotted time period you can pretty much do without penalty. If you try to push yourself to do more things in a shorter amount of time, you get a cumulative penalty (say, -5) to each subsequent action (and even then there's only so much you can do). It actually streamlines the process, since you can pretty much do anything you want but at a certain price. It also keeps the momentum going because actions that start in one round can roll over to the next, maintaining the pace of events. In addition, it's easier to adjust the scale of combat since action slots don't have to correspond to the same unit of time in every combat, nor do they represent the same scale of movement and action every time.

The difficult part would be adjusting your mindset so that instead of focusing on who's going, you focus on what's happening. Spells and similar effects can be a bit of a pain, but if you translate casting time from turns or rounds into action slots, it's much easier. It works best if you do two things. First, give players more responsibility for keeping up with their characters' action slots and initiative. Second, rather than each combatant doing everything they can in one turn, break things down into discrete parts. Each turn, the player describes what part they are doing. A charge, for instance, is basically 2 parts: run at your target and attack. Using Spring Attack is 3 parts: move to the target, attack, and move away. A player can state their intent so that the proper bonuses and penalties apply, but they can't resolve the entire maneuver all in one go, unless of course the manuever takes up one action slot.

 

[Aaron2]

On your turn:
your character has X number of AP (action points, no to be confused w/ action points from d20 modern or UA).
Instead of move/attack/full round actions, you spend AP. For example, you could spend Y AP to atk with your dagger, then move 20ft for Z AP.

As an optional additional, for every AP you spend, every one else can spend one. (So if an opponnent spends 5 AP to aim a crossbow at you, you could spend 5 of your AP to dock behind cover, charge them, etc..)

I just realized that what you have described is, word for word, the old FASA Star Trek RPG. It had Action Points (that it called AP) and allowed characters to perform most actions except movement during other characters turn. So of the actions you could perform on other's turns were things like "Dive for Cover" to jump out of the way of shots, etc.


Aaron (been reading alot of old games lately)