New DC Table, based on level 1 DCs and DM Screen

[Aoirorentsu]

Hello Enworlders,

In the grand tradition of Jhaelen, I've gone back to try to create a full table of the new Skill DCs by level table. I also have the benefit of seeing the 1st Level DCs, from Philip Reed at GM Oracle. Combined with the DCs for levels 6-30, which we know from WotC.

I looked at the level 6-30 DCs, figured out the pattern to guess the level 2-5 DCs, and used the 1st level DCs to verify as best as I could. The attached pdf has these tables (note that the level 2-5 DCs are still estimates based on the pattern from the other levels). In the columns next to each of the tables in the DCs, I noted the difference between the value for that row and the value of the row before it. Let me know if you spot a mistake, and...

Enjoy!
Aoi

 

[Aspeon]

Thanks for putting this up. I was going to dig up the old thread to ponder a bit, but here are some more observations and reverse-engineering from these numbers:

• Easy DCs increase by 16 from 1-30, which matches for an off stat you don't put anything into: +15 for half-level, +1 for mandatory stat bumps.
• Medium DCs increase by 20 from 1-30, which about match a primary/secondary stat (+15 for half-level, +4 for stat bumps) or one you get some item/feat/utility power support for.
• Hard DCs increase by 23 from 1-30, which means you'd probably need the stat bumps of a primary/secondary stat and some item/feat/utility power support to stay competitive.

I haven't played enough epic/paragon to know how much players usually get in terms of skill boosts, but it looks like the assumption is that you won't touch the skills you don't care about but will invest in Skill Focus or an interesting item or two in the ones you do, which seems about right. If you put in more than that, you'll outpace the DCs, but at that point you'd be actively sacrificing combat capacity, right?

To veer slightly more OT, I think "easy/moderate/hard" is less useful than "Endurance check everyone has to make and will be harmed if they fail/Skill challenge check everyone has to make, but with a few different options/Perception check the elf ranger will make on behalf of everyone." I think the way I'd use these is pick the table column based on purpose, and then +/- 5 to be easy or hard.

 

[TarionzCousin]

Hello Enworlders,

In the grand tradition of Jhaelen, I've gone back to try to create a full table of the new Skill DCs by level table.

Well, [MENTION=46713]Jhaelen[/MENTION], it appears that you're the Old Master now. You gave Aoi XP, but you didn't comment.

How does the chart look? Is there anything you would change? How do you feel about handing the torch off to the younger generation?

 

[Old Gumphrey]

Wow, so it's actually possible to fail a skill challenge again? That's interesting.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I don´t really get how the strating numbers are chosen, but ok. Lets see it how it plays out

(the jump from moderate to hard seems quite big, and at the end of the game, easy and hard are nearly 20 points apart, so someone who invested heavily and someone who didn´t are playing in completely different leagues.

The old DC´s were based on the assumption, that PC´s are not drifting that much apart... but ok, lets see how the guidelines play into the whole game. Probably all makes sense then

 

[Camelot]

They finally gave up on round numbers for level 1? It's nice to know there's going to be a balance between super easy and super hard now.

 

[Joshua Randall]

The game seems to be balanced around characters with 16s in their main stats.

So for level 1, if it's a skill based on your main stat and a trained skill (i.e. you're at +8)...

• you have a 100% success rate at Easy checks
• you have an 85% success rate at Medium checks
• you have a 50% success rate at Hard checks

If you're trained but have no stat modifier (i.e., +5) then:

• you have a 90% success rate at Easy checks
• you have an 70% success rate at Medium checks
• you have a 35% success rate at Hard checks

If you're not trained but you have a decent stat modifier (i.e. +2) then:

• you have a 75% success rate at Easy checks
• you have an 55% success rate at Medium checks
• you have a 20% success rate at Hard checks

All of this feels about right to me.

I like that Hard checks are actually hard now!

 

[UngeheuerLich]

If we look at the mark of nerath adventure, it seems that sicknesses now use easy and medium checks (moon fever, werewolf level 6)... so it is actually easier to resist sicknesses now... i don´t know if I like it.

 

[shmoo2]

The game seems to be balanced around characters with 16s in their main stats.

So for level 1, if it's a skill based on your main stat and a trained skill (i.e. you're at +8)...

• you have a 100% success rate at Easy checks
• you have an 85% success rate at Medium checks
• you have a 50% success rate at Hard checks

If you're trained but have no stat modifier (i.e., +5) then:

• you have a 90% success rate at Easy checks
• you have an 70% success rate at Medium checks
• you have a 35% success rate at Hard checks

If you're not trained but you have a decent stat modifier (i.e. +2) then:

• you have a 75% success rate at Easy checks
• you have an 55% success rate at Medium checks
• you have a 20% success rate at Hard checks

All of this feels about right to me.

I like that Hard checks are actually hard now!

So medium checks have a success rate range from 55% to 85%, or about 70% for a mixed party.

A party going through a complexity 1 (4:3) skill challenge with medium checks would pass 74.4% of the time and fail 25.6% of the time (assuming those with sub-optimal skills don't sit out completely).

That seems low for such a basic skill challenge.

I suppose skill challenges are supposed to have some easy skill options?

 

[keterys]

Are you saying the success or failure seems low?

Cause failing 1 in 4 skill challenges seems decent. Anything in that 20-35% range seems about right.