New DCs for skills

[Reaper Steve]

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[deleteme123456]

Perhaps the best indication that this is ridiculous... the hardest things in the game should be level 30 hard DCs. The way the table works that's actually Level 28 and I'm willing to accept that fudge factor.

Consider Joe McKlutz, a Cha-based Paladin in plate and a heavy shield with 10 in Dex (started at 8, bumped at 11 and 21). Anything with an armor check penalty is at -4. +14 from half-level is +10. OK, so Joe McKlutz can't quite eke out that 33 DC, but it's awfully close. Consider Joe's cousin, wearing Scale and a Light shield, still with a 10 in Dex. At +14 from half-level, he actually has a 10% chance of making the 33 DC.

A Level 28 demigod who started at 18, boosted at every opportunity will wind up at 28, for +9. +5 trained and +14 half-level is +28, needing only 5 (+2 racial needs 3, +skill training or item bonus is auto). "Well, it's really insanely hard, so you only have a 80% chance of making it."

I guess I see "Hard" as something that should be closer to 50% for someone who's barely trying, and expect that if you want to routinely suceed at hard tasks you need skill training or magic items.

I tend to agree that removing the footnotes is the real problem. Lowering the DCs across the board needed doing... and a 1st-level DC 20 for Hard is about 55% for the guy who's got +4 ability and +5 trained but no +2 racial... I can live with that, and I would expect PCs to accept that. If skilly McAwesome with that +2 racial takes skill focus, he can get to +14, so he only needs a 6. And he probably won't unless he really plans to be doing hard things all the time.

 

[deleteme123456]

Double post

 

[ObsidianCrane]

Hmm some of the problem might be language.

Easy, Moderate, Hard, Very Hard, Rarely Done

The last two lots of descriptors don't exist so some people are applying Hard for those and others are not. It seems WotC expects us to achieve the last two by upping the level of the check rather than just the check itself.

However I agree with those who are saying the pendulum has swung to far in the easy direction, WotC really needs to get this sorted out and make it work properly ASAP, not keep throwing things at it and hoping it starts to work.

 

[proto128]

A Level 28 demigod who started at 18, boosted at every opportunity will wind up at 28, for +9. +5 trained and +14 half-level is +28, needing only 5 (+2 racial needs 3, +skill training or item bonus is auto). "Well, it's really insanely hard, so you only have a 80% chance of making it."

Keep in mind that this character's Dexterity (to go with the previous examples) has gone from an incredible natural attitude into superhuman levels.

He's also received the proper training and has gotten extensive use out of it over his career.

He's also A DEMIGOD.

Somehow I don't have a problem with such a character, who is already entering Legendary status, either easily or auto-passing a task that many might consider impossible.

 

[pukunui]

In case anyone is wondering, the upcoming DM's Screen will not have these changes incorporated ... so it will require errata. That's pretty sad. But whatever.

 

[mach1.9pants]

In case anyone is wondering, the upcoming DM's Screen will not have these changes incorporated ... so it will require errata. That's pretty sad. But whatever.

Yeah that really sucks, I have cancelled my order for that. I don't mind writting in my books but not on my DM screen. I'll just use someones fan made one!

As an aside this changing of skill DCs has this made the trap DCs to high? If you look at them in the DMG they are mostly above hard for level....
I might go through and reduce a few of them I think!

 

[pukunui]

Yeah that really sucks, I have cancelled my order for that. I don't mind writting in my books but not on my DM screen. I'll just use someones fan made one!

I'm hoping maybe they'll release a "patch" we can print out and paste over top. I doubt it but one can dream, right? Even if they don't, I bet someone with good photoshop skills could do one ... I would but I doubt I'll have the time what with baby #2 having just been born.

As an aside this changing of skill DCs has this made the trap DCs to high? If you look at them in the DMG they are mostly above hard for level....

Probably. I'll deal with them as I get to them, I think. My main concern is that none of the Heroic tier adventures, at least, will incorporate any of these changes, so I'll have to go through each one and make sure things are up to snuff. I've only just started KotS, so I've got time to go through and make sure everything is good. I've already noticed that the Gelatinous Cube in KotS is different to what got printed in the MM, so I've updated that ... I bet there's some other stuff that's different as well.

 

[mach1.9pants]

I am running KotSF as well. I am just going to knock 5 off the DCs for a starter and take it from there, close enough for gov't work! Secret doors I always drop anyway 'cos no point in having them if they are totally unlikely to be found IMO.

I suppose a (fan or WotC) stick on patch for the DM Screen could be OK, but I will wait; pre-order is cancelled though.

Congrats on No2 BTW, we just had out 3rd boy

 

[pukunui]

I am running KotSF as well. I am just going to knock 5 off the DCs for a starter and take it from there, close enough for gov't work! Secret doors I always drop anyway 'cos no point in having them if they are totally unlikely to be found IMO.

Good point. I think I might play it by ear.

I suppose a (fan or WotC) stick on patch for the DM Screen could be OK, but I will wait; pre-order is cancelled though.

There actually is one now. Go check out the errata page. I don't know if they did it because I suggested it or because they were going to do it anyway but it's cool that they did!

Congrats on No2 BTW, we just had out 3rd boy

Thanks! Right back at you!