New defense bonus and armor system set up. PLEASE COMMENT

[Felnar]

Felnar, you are right about natural armor bonuses. A Colossal dragon has a massive (-8) size penalty to AC because it is easy to have an attack strike the body of the dragon, and as a larger target it's much more vulnerable to touch attacks. However, as pointed out by Sundragon2012, many "missed" arrows fired at a dragon simply bounce off the dragon's scales, or–even more fun–get stuck an inch or two inside a scale, making the dragon a veritable pincushion without causing any actual damage. And any arrows which do go far enough in do little damage compared to the dragon's total hit points. Basically, if a touch attack roll would have succeeded, but a regular attack fails, the weapon strikes the target but fails to penetrate armor, natural armor, etc. So, while it's easy to hit the dragon (size penalty), those scales are so hard even high-level characters have a tough time getting an effective hit past them (overwhelmingly high natural armor bonus).

i agree with all this. i just dont see the logic in Sundragon2012's size based defense modifiers. example: anything colossal sized with thin skin (no scales/etc). why would a hot air balloon get +5 AC? i think Sundragon2012 thinking of a dragon, and applying the source f natural armor bonus twice.

 

[genshou]

Not well at all. It turned into a munchkin frenzy.

Oooh, I'm sorry to hear that. I've never had that kind of misfortune. We've always had one munchkin in our gaming group, but he's easy enough to tolerate if we keep a careful eye on him

Now this is a possibility; if you want to use it then perhaps something like BAB-10 or 15 is the dodge bonus one gets. That way martial classes still benefit at 11th or 16th level but those non martial classes that, unless they have a high Dex (at the expense of something else when the PC was ceated) don't get free AC they should not have.

Another alternative might be BAB/2; round down. Or perhaps BAB/2 - dex modifier; round down.

Here DEX seems to be doubled up; the AC bonus has to be something and it is eluded to is "experience" in fighting - which is "dodging", "avoiding" or "blocking" blows; dexerity related things.

You know, in all the threads I've ever seen on this topic (and there are many; all the new members seem to love this topic), I don't think an idea anything like these two has come up. Good show, SBMC, good show! Mind if I use them? (Too late!)

 

[Ralvitz]

Well, for one, I agree with SBMC here, All the way. The Defence system should only work for the monks, becuase, they cant wear and armor period, wizards have special armors they can wear andnot get an archane penalty on it.

 

[boredgremlin]

Looks to me like it would make AC's too high.

 

[SBMC]

You know, in all the threads I've ever seen on this topic (and there are many; all the new members seem to love this topic), I don't think an idea anything like these two has come up. Good show, SBMC, good show! Mind if I use them? (Too late!)

Thanks! I've had a crappy week - ya just made my day! Use them - just be sure to send me the royalty checks!

 

[SBMC]

Well, for one, I agree with SBMC here, All the way. The Defence system should only work for the monks, becuase, they cant wear and armor period, wizards have special armors they can wear andnot get an archane penalty on it.

Thanks - I'm glad that there are more folks here that have a grasp of the core gaming rules of D20 and DnD than not!

 

[genshou]

Well, for one, I agree with SBMC here, All the way. The Defence system should only work for the monks, becuase, they cant wear and armor period, wizards have special armors they can wear andnot get an archane penalty on it.

Monks would still get their class ability to add to their AC, in addition to any Defense bonuses such as the types we're discussing. As for wizards... ANYONE can use that armor, not just wizards. Rogues can make good use of masterwork mithral breastplate, but so too can they make very excellent use of bracers of armor or simply a mage armor spell. As can monks.

The point is, in a lower-magic setting, no one will be stacking +5 enhancement bonuses with +5 natural armor and deflection, and probably almost no one will even be performing minor feats of "fortressing." In these settings, the reasoning that normally speaks against such an AC system doesn't apply to as full an extent. Characters will still continue to get +1 base attack bonus at the regular rate, up to the point where even wizard foes will be able to overcome their armored AC. So, class/level-based Defense isn't as bad as some are making it out to be.

But a better question is "Why don't you think this kind of system would work?" I can't really get a feel for what you are trying to say when you say so little. Tell me more of your thoughts.

 

[genshou]

Thanks! I've had a crappy week - ya just made my day! Use them - just be sure to send me the royalty checks!

Sure, I'll gladly send you 100% of the $0.00 royalties!

 

[SBMC]

Sure, I'll gladly send you 100% of the $0.00 royalties!

Thanks! I feel like Gary Coleman already!

 

[Bayonet_Chris]

My view

It looks like there are a lot of things to calculate. I'm reworking how combat is done for my own system.

Instead of adding a defense bonus per class, I just halved the base attack bonuses for each class. The abundance of combat feats fighter-types can get more than compensates for the diminished bonus gap and actually makes them more dangerous. I've made some more changes overall, but that is another subject altogether. I'm playtesting some of it tonight with my normal gaming group.

This is not the only change to combat, so please keep in mind this change was made to be part of a whole - not a single plug and play rule.