New Design & Development: Paladin Smites!

[Sammael]

This ain't your daddy's D&D anymore.

Yup.

 

[GlassJaw]

First thought - cool, finally some actual crunch!
Second thought - wow, these are kinda lame... :\

Overall, I don't like this trend at all.

The secondary, "consolation prize" abilities are kind of hokey and feel like they were thrown-in and designed as an afterthought. We feel bad if someone misses and wastes their smite so we'll tack on some random ability. Ehh. I would rather see abilities like the AC bonus be some kind of aura or just separate abilities altogether.

On top of that, it seems to me that effects like we are seeing here will do nothing to speed up play - quite the opposite. I thought one of the design goals for 4E was speed of play.

 

[Hussar]

Originally Posted by Hussar
This ain't D&D anymore.

Yup.

The wheel really does turn doesn't it? Wasn't this pretty much precisely what people were saying about 3e seven years ago?

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

I am underwhelmed, but then the Crusader from Bo9S didn't grab me either. Not sure I can add anything substantive to the conversation here. Plus, it seems to be rapidly degenerating into a "nuh uh, yah huh" kind of debate that can only end in thread closing.

I will say that conceptually, I find attacks that hurt enemies and help allies somewhat difficult to conceive. Most effects do one or the other. Attacks might have extra effects, but they usually penalize the enemy. Hamstring an opponent, he takes damage and loses two squares of movement. Heal an ally, they get 2d6+10 hp and a +2 to AC. That kind of thing.

Generally, secondary effects of abilities tend to have the same target as the primaries. So I can see why people are having trouble with it. Sure, mythologically it's fine and easy to explain. But mechanically it's different from most of what we've encountered before.

 

[DreamChaser]

The wheel really does turn doesn't it? Wasn't this pretty much precisely what people were saying about 3e seven years ago?

Yes. And I rolled my eyes just as vigorously then.

 

[Sammael]

The wheel really does turn doesn't it? Wasn't this pretty much precisely what people were saying about 3e seven years ago?

Possibly, but there are some crucial differences as well.

2E > 3E: huge changes to game mechanics (d20 system), a few flavor changes (any race can be any class, non-good rangers, orcs are CE, etc).

3E > 4E: overall, minor changes to game mechanics (tweaking and rebalancing of the d20 system), huge flavor changes.

To me, flavor is what makes the system "feel" like D&D, not mechanics. In that respect, I would wholeheartedly support even greater changes to the d20 system than what they are doing in 4E, but the current flavor changes are making me cringe.

 

[Gloombunny]

I'm not sure I like this whole "I hit, and an ally gets X". Seems very strange, especially the "I miss, and an ally gets X".

It actually makes more sense to me if the special effect happens regardless of whether the attack hits. Just think of it as a quick prayer followed by an attack.

Why does the prayer have to be followed by an attack? Well, you're a paladin, a martial champion of your deity. Your sword is your holy symbol. Cutting down the unrighteous is the purest expression of your faith. Actions speak louder than words, and a prayer without a strike against evil is just empty mumbling.

 

[Doug McCrae]

How often did Roland use detect evil, turn undead, lay on hands or cure disease? I'm betting zero.

 

[frankthedm]

I wish they would use a different term than ally, however. Unless you have multiple personalities, you are not an ally of yourself.

DID the article make it expressly clear that you could take the bonus yourself? I have a hunch the paladin will be a character with a lot of abilities he HAS to use on others rather than himself.

 

[GlassJaw]

In that respect, I would wholeheartedly support even greater changes to the d20 system than what they are doing in 4E, but the current flavor changes are making me cringe.

Same. From everything I've heard, 4E is not the "D&D" we know. Even though 3ed had an implied flavor and fluff, that flavor was much closer to "iconic" fantasy than 4E seems to be.